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Discussion Starter #1
which of course also effects your ability to swiftly shoulder the rifle and get precise hits. Disassembly of the stock is necessary, and the use of wax and Accraglas Gel will get rid of all the unnecessary "play" between the parts. Once this is done, and the Accuwedge installed, shouldering and hitting with the CAR is just as fast as it is with the AR(ie, about .20 second faster than it is with the unaltered CAR) An optical sight(on a flat top AR) will also knock off .10-.20 second for such a move-hit) depending upon how practiced you are with irons, and how good your eyes are. The optic is a nice option for NOW, in case of a short term"mission) and for winning combat rifle matches. :) However, for shtf, the removable carrying handle should be loctited into place. If need be, the heat from a Butane lighter will break the Loctite bond, allowing removal of the carrying handle (ie, for ccw under one's clothing,for example).
 

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Just because it's SHTF, why do suddenly feel that your optic no longer works? That is the time when you need your optic the most.

They are NOT that fragile and the batteries last a LONG time.

What is the need to suddenly set yourself back to the lowest common denominator starting from day one? You think everyone else is going to? It will be a time when a person will need every edge they have.

You can swap out the optic, replace it with a telescopic sight, etc.

The best solution is an ARMS #38 rail with a flipup, or some similar setup. DPMS has rail mountable sight that is basically an A2 sight without the carry handle.

As for the buttstock, you'll be better off going with an A1 length fixed buttstock. They are more comfortable, faster to shoulder, quieter, and they keep your cleaning gear with the weapon, which is where it should be with a fighting rifle.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
bs they are. NO electronic circuit could

EVER be as rugged as a simple pc of steel is. YOU are the bozo who "thinks" he has to have a sling shot, in case shtf lasts 20+ yrs (and there's STILL game to hunt, ha ha) and you talk about BATTERIES for a SIGHT?) You're out of your friggin mind.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
if u could <font color=red>[**censored**]</font>in READ, u'd KNOW why

the CAR stock is better. It conceals better, it adjusts for body armor and pack harness,it's easier on and off the lower in the field.
 

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No, it's NOT easier on and off the lower in the field, because with a fixed stock you can take it off with an ordinary screwdriver, but with a collapsable, you need a special spanner wrench, or a pipe wrench if you don't mind scarring the metal.

You save a whopping 4" with the stock all the way closed vs an A1 length stock. But if that bitch breaks, you are screwed.

The A1 length fixed stock with a trapdoor buttplate is probably the best stock to have on your weapon.
 

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I switched out the collapsible stock on my CAR a little over a year ago. Replaced it with a DSA skeleton stock. A1 length, but being all steel/aluminum, it 'should' be more durable than the fiberglass fixed stock.

I do like the idea of the storage space in the buttstock that the A1 offers, but since I didn't have it with the original CAR stock, I didn't lose anything I had before.

I carry an Otis cleaning kit in the pistol grip, along with a few spare (obviously small) parts. Firing pin retainer pins, etc. I've considered a small, triangle-shaped nylon pouch to fit in the hollow of the DSA stock, held in place with velcro straps, to carry other small stuff, but haven't made (or asked my wife to make) one yet.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
U r screwed, if need to conceal AR stock

OR adjust it for body armor, pack harness, or another shottist. SOG multitool's ratcheting plier takes CAR stock off and puts it back on again. Like I said, you can't READ.
 

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Personally I prefer iron sights on a short range firearm like the AR/M16. The years following the Canadian Army's change from iron sights on the useless POS licensed from Colt to optical sights, my Regiments scores on the annual "jungle lane" matches that we qualified on, dropped about 30%. I, myself found that iron sights on "jungle lanes", for me give higher scores in less time.
 

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Re: U r screwed, if need to conceal AR stock

223 fan said:
OR adjust it for body armor, pack harness, or another shottist. SOG multitool's ratcheting plier takes CAR stock off and puts it back on again. Like I said, you can't READ.
You don't seem to understand that I've tried both of these stock options under various conditions.

First, the SOG plier isn't that big and it might get the job done somewhat, but I doubt if it will get the nut tight enough. Vice grips or a pipe wrench will get it done though the finish will look not so good (not that big of a deal if SHTF).

The CAR doesn't adjust that much, only 4". I know you think that you can stuff a CAR-15 down your pant's with the muzzle up your ass, but in real life it doesn't work so good.

The CAR-15's stock can adjust for some things, But it's not absolutely necessary for body armor, or a pack harness. I've mainly found it handy getting in and out of a vehicle or when carrying the weapon in a vehicle.

The A1 length stock can be used with most shooters (I recommend the CavArms).

The point you're missing is the durability issue. Both stocks have their advantages, but the A1 length CavArms stock, made of the same material as a Glock frame, is seriously tougher and a better choice for open country use.
 

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I never retracted my telescoping CAR stock, except for when it sat in the car between the seats anyway. Never when in use.

The longer A2 stock actually technically 'fits' me better even when wearing armor, as I have unusually long arms. (I wear a 37" sleeve length.)

The fixed A1 length DSA stock is a little short for me, but it works, it's shorter (more "compact") than the A2, doesn't rattle like the CAR stock (yes, I've tried both the plastic and aluminum ones; they both are noisy; the plastic being by far the worst about it), and it's tough as nails, because it's made of steel. And it's still compact enough that kids can (and do) shoot it; I don't worry about it being more compact than that. I had it on a campout this past weekend with a twenty-four 13-18 year olds and 4 other adults. No problems for anyone except the smallest, youngest boy, who was still able to use it, albeit somewhat slowly. A shorter stock would have helped him, but he was the size of most 10-11 year olds.

Since the telescoping isn't a concern for me, the only thing the DSA stock gives up is buttstock storage, which I'd actually like to have. But like I said originally, I didn't lose anything when switching to it, since the CAR stock didn't have it anyway.

The only thing the CAR stock offers is the ability to be extremely short, which I don't need when using the gun, even when wearing armor.

What works for me, may not work for Herve' Vallachez ("Tattoo"). I can accept that.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
wrong, it offers ccw in asmaller package

when disassembled, if a 10 or 11" barrel is mounted, and its flashhider is removed.
 

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Re: wrong, it offers ccw in asmaller package

andy said:
when disassembled, if a 10 or 11" barrel is mounted, and its flashhider is removed.
why don't you go discuss this with 223Fan?

Or, have you decided that he's JJ too?

Don't you think that everyone already knows that you are posting under multiple names?

You know, the thing you accuse everyone else of doing...

:devil:
 

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So, are you going to discuss this with your alter egos?

Do you realize how pathetic, silly, and just stupid that looks?

:devil:
 

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andy said:
Re: wrong, it offers ccw in asmaller package when disassembled, if a 10 or 11" barrel is mounted, and its flashhider is removed.


It does make it smaller, but to "CCW" an AR or a CAR sans trench-coat means disassembly, as you point out. And since a disassembled weapon is a non-functioning weapon, should we even call it a "weapon" in the first place..?

What we'd be doing in that instance isn't "CCW" (Concealed Carry of a Weapon), it's "CC of several pieces of a machine that, given enough time, can be configured into a weapon".

If we still want to beat this horse, how about we just accept the fact that since I'm 6'3", right at 4" taller than average, then when it comes to concealment, I'm just as well off with the longer fixed stock as the average 5'11" man is with the 4" shorter collapsible stock.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
when it's DEATH to get caught with it,

(about a WEEK of torture) you'll change your mind about that. :)An AR is PERFECTLY safe with a rd in the chamber, upper not on the lower. Ditto a mag of ammo in the lower. From such a start, I can assemble and FIRE the AR in 5 seconds, on a good "run".,and rarely need more than 10 seconds to open the attache case, assemble and fire. Hell, Garand claims you ALWAYS have ALL the time you want, in a fight. :)
 

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Man what a bunch of BS. If it comes down to that, for heavy firepower in a small package, I'll CCW the MAC 10 or the Mini UZI.

Mike
 
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