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be what if shtf. That's PURE bs. You can't know whether or not you'll need a concealable rifle, or a can, so best have them to start with. I DO know that only an idiot is in open country in daylight, or uses a noisy gun, when a quiet one is an option, when hostile men are in the area. I also know that only an idiot "thinks" that there's more deer than livestock, or that .22's can't brain livestock or deer, or take dogs. :) Only an idiot sticks himself with HAVING to do any one thing. The foot mobile man can always ride, stay in place, etc. The guy who NEEDSa 4wd full of stuff CAN'T go foot mobile. So he's less versatile and that's bad if shtf.
 

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andy said:
be what if shtf. That's PURE bs. You can't know whether or not you'll need a concealable rifle, or a can, so best have them to start with. I DO know that only an idiot is in open country in daylight, or uses a noisy gun, when a quiet one is an option, when hostile men are in the area. I also know that only an idiot "thinks" that there's more deer than livestock, or that .22's can't brain livestock or deer, or take dogs. :) Only an idiot sticks himself with HAVING to do any one thing. The foot mobile man can always ride, stay in place, etc. The guy who NEEDSa 4wd full of stuff CAN'T go foot mobile. So he's less versatile and that's bad if shtf.
The guy with the 4wd full of stuff starts out better off than the guy on foot and can cover more ground than the guy on foot can. I have no idea why the guy in the 4wd can't get out of the vehicle and walk, but I suppose it is related to the same phenomena that causes a .308 user to stand in the open and be repelled from using cover.

The guy with the 4wd starts out with 100 times the versatility of the guy on foot. The guy in the truck can always get out of the truck. The guy on foot *MIGHT* be able to find a vehicle, but maybe not. The guy in the truck started with one.

Only an idiot starts out limiting themselves to the barest of supplies. The smart guy knows he can always reduce down to the minimum, but the guy starting out with the minimum may never be able to build up to more supplies.

The can, is a nice to have, but people that rely on them to make up for a lack of skills are asking for trouble. Hostile men in the area? The need for a concealable rifle (or even a can) may be determined by how well you've prepared. If you don't need to forage, then a noisy gun is immaterial.

As far as dealing with hostiles, once any hostilities begin, the suppressor is of little value since the "bad guys" more than likely won't have them and their shots will be noisy.

you have been the only person insisting that we (or anyone else) is going to be in the open. I think everyone agrees that is not a wise thing to do. But, since as you say, no one can know what form or conditions will be shtf, it is foolish to assume that you will always be able to avoid being in the open in daylight. (there's hundreds of scenarios that could cause this to happen - only a fool would dismiss them all.)

Also, since we don't know what shtf will be, we would be foolish to limit our gear such that we have limited options on how to engage hostiles should we choose to do so. (either by choice or necessity)

Flexibility of planning is paramount. Starting out limiting your options is not the best choice in the world.

:devil:
 

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Well, John you just told us that you don't know what will happen if the SHTF and believe that flexible planning is necessary. That's good thinking and I am not being sarcastic.
 

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andy said:
be what if shtf. That's PURE bs. You can't know whether or not you'll need a concealable rifle, or a can, so best have them to start with. I DO know that only an idiot is in open country in daylight, or uses a noisy gun, when a quiet one is an option, when hostile men are in the area. I also know that only an idiot "thinks" that there's more deer than livestock, or that .22's can't brain livestock or deer, or take dogs. :) Only an idiot sticks himself with HAVING to do any one thing. The foot mobile man can always ride, stay in place, etc. The guy who NEEDSa 4wd full of stuff CAN'T go foot mobile. So he's less versatile and that's bad if shtf.
NUTTY JOHN talks so much about a CAN, that I have come to believe, that in NUTTY JOHN'S PRIMITIVE LANGUAGE, he's talking about a PORTABLE TOILET.
 

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Hard Ball said:
Well, John you just told us that you don't know what will happen if the SHTF and believe that flexible planning is necessary. That's good thinking and I am not being sarcastic.
Actually I agree with that part of his post. I do however disagree with some of his other conclusions....

The person with the most flexibility of planning, at least to me, starts out with a series of layers, each one a fall-back from the prior one.

for example starting out in a vehicle, lets you fall back to walking.
having your gear staggered in layers allows you to shed a layer if necessary to move quicker.

Never have all your eggs in one basket, and never be married to a single plan or option.

If you start out walking, what is your fall-back?

If you are injured, but still have a vehicle, you can still cover a lot of ground if necessary.

If you are injured, but have no vehicle, you are limited in what you can or cannot do.

Your gear should reflect a certian amount of latitude of thinking, but never at a point where it jeapordizes your survival.

You should always be evaluating gear and upgrading where possible and preactical.

Thinsulate and Goretex are examples of improved materials that are relatively new, and the prices for products made of these continually drop.

Sleeping bag design, backpack design, camp stove, water filters, all these things are becoming better built all the time.

:devil:
 

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andy said:
clowns THINK that they can KNOW what will be what if shtf. That's PURE bs.
You can't know
I DO know
I also know
Is there supposed to be logic somewhere in that disconnect?

Funny how the guy who says that clowns thinking they know what will be shtf is the biggest teller of tales about how things are going to be shtf that I've ever seen.

Interesting stuff yeah?
 
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