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Discussion Starter #1
Look, I didn't mean to start a "my gun is better than your gun argument." I just said the Glock 21 performs better (and holds more rounds) than my Colt Series 70, .45 ACP. I'm not dictating to anyone what firearm they should carry. My daughter is a ballerina build, 95 lbs. 5'2". My son is 5'11, 170. Do you think the same pistol would be compatible for the both of them? ( Yes, I've had the test's done, their both mine.) Every gun manufacturer has had problems, some could be fixed, some couldn't. Colt M2000: Terrible trigger, felt like I was pulling it through broken glass. Smith & Wesson .22 Remington Jet: Never did work right. The Jet rounds bound up the cylinder, and the .22 LR inserts wouldn't fire half of the time. Ruger P85: My friend who bought one, couldn't hit a tent from the inside, I couldn't either. Etc., Etc. Most of the glock problems were with the .40 S&W Series which I think they were too hasty in introducing. Magazine problems can be fixed pretty easily. I'm sticking to my G21. Hey, I've got a Makarov back up.
 

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I carried 1911's of one sort or another through the 80's and 90's; all in .45acp. Multiple Colts (govt and officers models), a Remington (military surplus), and a Detonics combat master.

In 1999, I re-thought my carry gun setup, as that's when I started carrying an LE badge and carrying openly in uniform. The only 1911's I still owned were (and are) a blued colt govt and a stainless detonics combat master. The govt model is my old ipsc "tactical" class gun; only visible modifications are Bo-Mar sights, a slightly extended safety, and a McCormick titanium/carbon-fiber trigger. Non-visible modifications are more important; worked over by John Dixon (actually used to be his gun), anyone familiar with 70's & 80's ipsc knows who he is. The thing will literally feed empty brass, yet still lock up tight enough to put all bullets touching at 25 yards. Literally. I qualify "master" level with it still today. It's got great reliability, great accuracy, and a great 'feel'.

However, (comma), for open uniform carry, it was a poor choice. It's blued, which means I had to clean it just all the time. It's more "open" lockwork (any 1911's) meant I had to clean it just all the time. Any time it rained, any time I got dusty, any time I got back in the brush (and I am in rural Arkansas), it had to be cleaned.

That's a long-winded way of repeating: it was a poor choice for open uniform carry.

Basically, I debated between a stainless 1911; either standard or double-stack, and the more "modern" guns. I had several friends who used Glocks and swore by them, but I couldn't get past the idea of that weird, "sproingy" trigger. But when making a "pro & con" list on paper of the advantages and disadvantages of numerous guns (stainless 1911, glock, beretta, sig, HK USP and even HK P7), the glock 19 became more and more intriguing.

Early, I dismissed the .40 and .45 glocks. Even though I reload the .45, and not the 9mm or .40, the double-stack .45 glocks just were too big around for me to want. The .40's I dismissed as I'm not convinced it's much better than a top-end 9mm, and I can also get cheap generic and milsurp 9mm; no such option with the .40S&W.

When I made my list, the G19's advantages (over my blue 1911) were:

- lighter weight
- higher capacity (228% capacity. That's significant when backup's always 20 miles away.)
- slightly smaller grip diameter than a single-stack 1911, unlike most double-stack 9mm's
- lower maintenance
- more energy per round
- more factory ammo options

It's also smaller, the same size as a commander, so it's easier to carry concealed when not in uniform. Now, instead of carrying the full-size 1911 open and the Detonics when concealed, I carry the one G19 whether concealed or open.

It did take time getting used to the trigger; no getting around that. I went through the "low & left" thing all new glock shooters seem to go through. But with practice, I've gotten past it, and now shoot expert and occasionally master with it.

The gun & two spare mags gives me right at 20,000 total ft/lbs of energy at hand, where the colt with two spares only gave me around 7,000. While muzzle energy isn't the only relevant factor, it is a relevant factor; and this is almost a 3X increase.

Regarding the glock "KB" phenomenon, I don't know that I've ever even heard of an instance of it in 9mm; it always seems to be in .40's or .357's. And yes, I've seen a KB myself with a Colt 1911 in .38 super at an ipsc match in Houston. (Chuck P., I hope your fingerprints grew back... :poke: )

I also have no doubt that many of the departmental glock horror stories are valid; very probably due to glock rushing to meet a need or fill an order before everything was worked out. But all I can personally attest to is my personal experience with my personal guns. I've shot thousands of rounds thru my G19 and G26 both, and the only problems were FTFeed's with one ammo (Federal 147-grain Hi-Shok), and even then, only in the G19 with the post-ban 10-round magazines. Any other ammo, or even that ammo in any other mags, not a single problem; and that includes 300-400 rounds of +P+ ammo as well. Can't hardly ask for better than that.

I'm not claiming it's the "perfect gun for everybody". If you're in Alaska where you may be facing large animals, or people wearing multiple layers of leather clothing, etc, you may well need more power and penetration. Where I am, I don't; the 127-grain JHP at over 1,200 fps is fine for where I am.

I still like my 1911's and have no intention of parting with them. They're reliable, ergonomic, powerful, and I'd still trust either with my life.

I stick with the Glock 19 as my primary defensive handgun for much the same reasons I stick with the CAR-15 as my primary defensive longarm. While it may not be able to do absolutely everything, it absolutely does a whole lot of things very well.
 

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"master' on WHAT courses of fire, John? How about some times, numbers of shots, holster type, startposition, range, target sizes, etc? For instance, full 10 yd El Pres, REAL ccw, fastened coat or shirt over the gear, facing uprange, 3 full yds edge to edge for targets, 10" A zones, full bore ammo, surrender hand start, COLD, 2 runs, all hits in the C zone, at least half in the A zone, what's your average time?
 

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For John and Terry,

I will take the word of those who do (or have in the past) carry on a daily basis as an officer. I carry on a daily basis but in a relatively clean environment and am unlikely to have a run-in with several BG's so my Colt Officers Model rides with me. I like the gun and it fits me and my needs well.

One question, why are the Marines (who will certainly see combat in all the nasty places) going back to the Colt 1911A1? They could surely have any gun they wanted for their elite units.


For Andy, you ask a legitimate question but remember that IPSC is NOT reality.

RIKA
 

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Terry, I think most here, at least those that aren't clinically retarded, follow the "use what works best for you" philosophy. However, we are passionate about what we like and it may come off sounding like an argument.
 

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andy said:
"master' on WHAT courses of fire, John? How about some times, numbers of shots, holster type, startposition, range, target sizes, etc? For instance, full 10 yd El Pres, REAL ccw, fastened coat or shirt over the gear, facing uprange, 3 full yds edge to edge for targets, 10" A zones, full bore ammo, surrender hand start, COLD, 2 runs, all hits in the C zone, at least half in the A zone, what's your average time?
Standard, not-really-intense police qualification courses. 25 yards to 3 yards. Holster is un-conceealed duty holster, although a "Level 3 retention" duty holster; a Safariland 0705. Targets are standard B27's; I confess to never measuring one.

Ammo is same as carry ammo when shooting the glock - Winchester 127-grain +P+ black talon. In the .45, I generally shoot my own loads, a 225-grain flat-point lead bullet; don't recall powder charge, but a full hardball loading. (Not some wimped-out load that most guys shoot in competition.) Sometimes I'll shoot 'generic' fmj, either USA or UMC.

One of my pet peeves is not requiring qualification with duty ammo. I sometimes want to smack guys who have trouble barely qualifying with .38 wadcutters on the range, and then carry magnum loads on the street. That's stupid, dangerous, and risky. [/soapbox off]

I don't shoot formal competition anymore; haven't since 1992 or so, and back then I was only ipsc class "B". I make no claims of being a "world class shottist" or shootist or whatever. I'm talking about the difference between scores with the 1911 and with the glock, and acknowledging up front that with the 1911, scores are indeed higher, even though I don't shoot the 1911 nearly as much anymore. I just like to run the course with it during qualifications to keep it current on my file; so I can carry it on duty if I ever chose to, if something happened to the glock, etc.
 

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So, what's your time on a full-standard El Presidente, reload, ccw, and a 2 run average, "cold". all hits in C zone or better, over half in the 10" A zone? I dont call anyone who can't do this in 10 seconds much more than "competent'. "Master" means sub 7 seconds.
 

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Ipsc Is Also Not Reality!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #9
andy said:
So, what's your time on a full-standard El Presidente, reload, ccw, and a 2 run average, "cold". all hits in C zone or better, over half in the 10" A zone? I dont call anyone who can't do this in 10 seconds much more than "competent'. "Master" means sub 7 seconds.
You have the unmitigated gall to question a Law Enforcement Officer on his shooting abilities? YOU who hasn't fired a pistol in over twenty years? You couldn't hit a bull in the A** with a handfull of sand, and your record proves it. Don't forget, I have access to ALL your past.
 

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:flamethr: Better take cover. :toilet:

RIKA :D
 

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I heard the sound of that slap from here...

:devil:
 

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Tell us more about his time as an "IPSC Champion"!!!!
 
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