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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
40 gr Blitz, at a range of 10 ft or so. Not that I advocate either the AUG, or the 40 gr hp's, just illustrating what 223 sp's and short barrels CAN do. Maybe you "think" you'd still be functional, with 'only" a 1" diameter hole in your chest, and a 5" circle of destroyed tissue around that hole? YOu are fos if so.
 

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Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude?What short barrel?The AUG is a bullpup!
It has a long,longer,& longest tube option.Shorties need not apply.

Longererest tube =more velocity=a higher spank factor.Simple.
 

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Heck, I have AUGs with 16 inch barrels and they LOOK short, but really are not.

Speaking of AUGs, how the heck would you hold one of them with a Beta-C mag inserted in the magwell? It looks to me that the danged magazine would get in the way of you being able to hold the gun in firing position.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
make up your MINDS, punks. YOu "think" 9" more tube makes a BIG difference? 500 fps, tops. Wake UP, stupes. Shorty 223's can get PLENTY of velocity. The fact that you are stupid about it doesn't change anything.

I have no idea why anyone bothers to OWN a Beta mag, much less try to use such a klutzy thing. I believe in HITTING, or else not firing. HIT somebody, with 25% of a 30 rd mag, and you will have done more than most Medal of Honor winners did with a rifle, in the action that won them their Medal.
 

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Rich Z said:
It looks to me that the danged magazine would get in the way of you being able to hold the gun in firing position.

That would be a mite awkward.I can see the same problem w/a chest carried M-4 type rifle.I'm suprised that the maker doesn't offer a single sided drum.Similar in style to the old Luger snail drum.I'd think that one w/a RH offset would work well.Even allow a larger diameter to make up for the loss of the other half.
 

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AFAIK, AUG barrels run 16.3 "carbine", 20.3 "standard", and 24.8 "LMG" inches; as well as an "SMG" version with a 14" barrel.

I'm with you on the Beta mags. Strictly for playing with a full-auto gun, is the only use I could even imagine for one. Too bulky, blocky, and delicate for comfort for me to use if it were "for real", and no added fun on a semi-auto gun.
 

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andy said:
40 gr Blitz, at a range of 10 ft or so. Not that I advocate either the AUG, or the 40 gr hp's, just illustrating what 223 sp's and short barrels CAN do. Maybe you "think" you'd still be functional, with 'only" a 1" diameter hole in your chest, and a 5" circle of destroyed tissue around that hole? YOu are fos if so.
The key words here: at 10 ft.

Once again, you use a meaningless example to try and prove a point.

What were you trying to prove? that at 10 ft a .223 is lethal? Nobody on the face of the earth would argue otherwise.

Short barrel? Umm, it will be at least a 16" barrel - the AUG is a bullpup.

What ever you thought your point was, you need to re-think it and re-state it.

:devil:
 

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andy said:
I have no idea why anyone bothers to OWN a Beta mag, much less try to use such a klutzy thing. I believe in HITTING, or else not firing. HIT somebody, with 25% of a 30 rd mag, and you will have done more than most Medal of Honor winners did with a rifle, in the action that won them their Medal.
Because I can. :)

Plus I like the idea of 100 rounds that I can just plug into my gun with a single move. Will I ever really need it? Probably not. But then again, will I ever really NEED the gun it fits into anyway? Probably not.

Anyway, I haven't used the Beta-C mag I have for my AR-15s all that much, but it has been 100 percent reliable when I used it. From what I understand it's design allows it to be fully loaded and stored that way indefinitely without problems with losing spring tension. Try leaving a regular 30 round mag loaded for a couple of years.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The Army leaves them loaded 2 rds short, for DECADES, dude, and they work just fine.
 

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andy said:
The Army leaves them loaded 2 rds short, for DECADES, dude, and they work just fine.
No they don't. I don't know where you heard that but SOP is empty mags in storage. They rotate loaded mags out every other week. This is mainly for armed guard duty and active combat personnel.

The only thing that is ready to go right off the bat is belted ammunition and single shots. That is it.

Mike
 

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I think what John meant was that magazines that are carried in combat are loaded two rounds short, to facilitate reliability. This practice IS decades old. You certainly wouldn't leave magazines loaded for decades. Funny thing though. Jeff Cooper commented that he left .45 magazines loaded for almost five years and they worked perfectly. Another man I knew loaded a fifteen round .30 Carbine magazine in 1971 , misplaced it, and found it in his attic when he was moving 11 years later. It, too, worked fine.
 

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I wonder what the manufacturer's of magazines would consider as reasonable for storage of mags for long periods of time with a full load? I would think any problems with a magazine likely wouldn't show up until the last one or two rounds were left in the clip. If the spring doesn't have enough tension to push the last rounds up quick enough for the returning bolt carrier, the round could fail to be picked up off of the magazine follower.

But I wonder how real of a problem that is? When I load up magazines for guns I may have sitting on the end table near the bed, I normally only load them no more then half full. I figure this is a reasonable compromise. Yeah, I guess I should rotate the mags every once in a while, and in a perfect world, I guess I would do that.
 

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No doubt it was more of a problem in the early 1900s. Spring steel has come a long way, and I haven't seen "new" magazines "take a set" after years of being fully loaded. What wears out the springs faster is constantly loading and unloading (compressing and uncompressing the spring). I usually shoot up the carry ammo and rotate the magazines every 6 months.
 

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500 fps means more than you "think" gunkid. That's why the 11" POSCAR is worthless. I PROVED that. Even the new M262 round would be pithetic from a 11" barrel. Making maybe 2500 fps at the most.

andy said:
make up your MINDS, punks. YOu "think" 9" more tube makes a BIG difference? 500 fps, tops. Wake UP, stupes. Shorty 223's can get PLENTY of velocity. The fact that you are stupid about it doesn't change anything.

I have no idea why anyone bothers to OWN a Beta mag, much less try to use such a klutzy thing. I believe in HITTING, or else not firing. HIT somebody, with 25% of a 30 rd mag, and you will have done more than most Medal of Honor winners did with a rifle, in the action that won them their Medal.
 

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Rich Z said:
I wonder what the manufacturer's of magazines would consider as reasonable for storage of mags for long periods of time with a full load? I would think any problems with a magazine likely wouldn't show up until the last one or two rounds were left in the clip. If the spring doesn't have enough tension to push the last rounds up quick enough for the returning bolt carrier, the round could fail to be picked up off of the magazine follower.

But I wonder how real of a problem that is? When I load up magazines for guns I may have sitting on the end table near the bed, I normally only load them no more then half full. I figure this is a reasonable compromise. Yeah, I guess I should rotate the mags every once in a while, and in a perfect world, I guess I would do that.
I have some Colt AR15 mags that have been loaded fully for over a year. I decided to take them out and shoot them empty and then reload'em. I expected some FTE/FTF, but to my surprise, none occurred. Spring steel technology has come a LONG way since we started using autoloaders.
When I was a grunt in the USMC, our guard mount mags were kept loaded for up to 90 days at a time. We would rotate them out and use those mags for quarterly weapons quals. Never had a problem, then either. So, IMHO, I think all the whining about magazines and long storage is wasted energy, UNLESS the magazines are older than say mid-60's.:madeuce:
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
so is the whining about AR's not being reliable, and 223 sp's not having enough range and stopping power. If you want a bit more penetration, have a few rds of steel-capped 62 gr ball. If you want a bit more range, have a few rds of 69gr smk bthp's. I can see having 15 rds of each, just in case. One 30 rder full of sp;s. One with 15 sp's on the bottom, 13 smk's on top. or maybe mixed in, every other rd. one with 15 sp's on the bottom, 13 rds of 62 ball on top, or maybe e mix them, too. Then a few seconds of rerranging can give you the "right" ammo on top, for the first 5-6 shots, anyway. That's all you're likely to have any real use for, anyway.

One 30 rder in the vehicle, but not taken very far on foot before being abandoned/cached, full of alternating tracers and ball. that one's just for "normal times" evasion of a chopper. :) dumbasses "think" cop choppers, or even MOST military choppers are ARMORED, attack choppers. Wrong. So a few rds of tracer or ball hitting the chopper means that they WILL back off 1/4-1/2 a mile, giving you a LOT better chance of slipping away from them, before any ground forces can be brought to bear on you.
 

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At 1/4 to 1/2 mile, the thermal imager, common to police helicopters in phoenix, can watch you all day long. Plus the plain visible light optics can too.

I had a very informative ride along in one of the Phx ploice department's notars a few years back. You really don't have a clue where technology is these days.

Your very short supply of tracer / ball ammo might get noticed, might not.

Nice fantasy though....

:devil:
 

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If the helicopter has a door gunner, the dipstick is dead meat!
 
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