with a .223 is a fools shot. Only the clumsy or lazy can't get within 5 yards if he is a motivated. Bow hunters do it all the time. Same with man, skill and patience with a 10/22 and subsonic ammo will overcome any clumsy over armed tard especially when that tard is armed with a muzzle heavy prone to jam CAR with a 10 in. barrel and a six inch hunk of usless metal on the end. :nyah: