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had to use the mylar hood, around the beanie and neck gaiter. one set of foot wraps, two sets of longjohns, the BDUs. bugnet bag wrapped around legs, and I was ok. To get down to 20F, comfortably, especially with a bit of wind, will mean bugnet bags around just the lower legs, the 50x20 ft gillnet hammock unfolded and wrapped around upper legs, debris stuffed between the SOL and the PEVA bags the seated reclining position. sitting on one of the armor inserts
leaning back on the other kevlar, adding the other set of foot wraps, the shoes, (unlaced,) feet inside of the buttpack, daypack around thighs ( AMAP) That'll suffice, and I'll still be able to exercise inside of the bags and use the UCO lantern if need be. By switching out the outside SOL bag to the PEVA, I retain the option of being able to make a Korchanski supershelter-lean-to, with the one way projected heat of a Siberian fire lay in front of it, if it's colder than 10F. and heated water bottles inside of the shelter. Naturally, the water could be heated by a discrete Dakota fire pit and taken inside of the bags, too. giving the option of heat AND exercise, which the UCO does not offer. Gotta be bloody careful with that thing. That's reserved for when get too wet cold before getting properly set up. Just sit down warm up, dry out, and then go about getting properly geared up for the situation. The bags, opened like a clamshell or arranged as a supershelter, will warm up 30F+ degrees in the sun, due to the greenhouse effect of the PEVA window (s) and the reflective properties of the mylar. The Drum liners proved unable to sustain my 220 lbs on the floor of the van, but they can do it in the hammock. They pop like big balloons on the ground. I had to remove the passenger seat from the old van to be able to hang the hammock, ,catty corner from the visor-pivot to the crack at the top outside of the hatchback The net-hammock badly needs snakeskins to keep it from snagging everything around it when packing/unpacking and hiking. The PEVA is a bit heavier than the mylar, The foot wraps a bit heavier than socks, altho not as thick as the wool, they trap air and offer 4 clean dry surfaces on your feet (per pair) The drum liners add some weight and the wiggy's lonjohns do, also. as does the duct tape and clear packing tape. So the total weight of the system is 6 lbs. For the versatility, compactness, effectiveness in all weather conditions it's pretty astounding.

To do the same with the 12 lb MSS, you remove the 6 lb winter bag, add 3 lbs of poncho and woobie, , since you can't wear the MSS as a poncho, half a lb of bugnetting, and a lb of hammock. and you still can't use it as a supershelter.and it wont hide you from IR and thermal searches, like the Mylar will. So, the MSS is over 5 lbs of wasted weight and a lot of bulk and there's still the threat of getting the patrol bag and/or the woobie soaked. So I've got the MSS beat all to hell.
 

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Melvin probably considers a dumpster a tactical fighting position, or at the minimum a "spider hole". Melvin start taking your meds, please.
 

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You do realize you will still show on it - you will be a different temp than your surroundings, plus you are exhaling warm air.
 

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If you’ve ever played with even a cheap thermal, set it to white hot on the display. Stuff that should be hot, but isn’t stands out. We played around using Mylar,plexiglass, and other materials. That big void stands out. If it’s cold enough out, warm air is detectable.

If you have really good thermals, like the trijicon unit, then forget it.
 

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If you’ve ever played with even a cheap thermal, set it to white hot on the display. Stuff that should be hot, but isn’t stands out. We played around using Mylar,plexiglass, and other materials. That big void stands out. If it’s cold enough out, warm air is detectable.

If you have really good thermals, like the trijicon unit, then forget it.
There you go again using logic and common sense. Be prepared to be cussed out.
 
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There you go again using logic and common sense. Be prepared to be cussed out.
Not to mention, you’re not invisible to night vision. Both have strengths and weaknesses.

I don’t own any thermal at the moment, but one of my friends does.
 
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