[andy]

if it doesn't have ENOUGH morepower than a .22 lr to MATTER any, especially if the pc is bigger and heavier than a Kahr PM9 9mm. The only reason to choose such a 380 is you're too CHEAP to buy the PM Kahr, and you're DELUDED about blowback 380 "power". Shoot some chucks, *****, etc with it. Watch them run off, JUST like they would with a .22 hit in the same place (most of the time). Don't even THINK about using it on big dogs, cause you'll get your ass chewed, real good.

 

[Terry G]

if it doesn't have ENOUGH morepower than a .22 lr to MATTER any, especially if the pc is bigger and heavier than a Kahr PM9 9mm. The only reason to choose such a 380 is you're too CHEAP to buy the PM Kahr, and you're DELUDED about blowback 380 "power". Shoot some chucks, *****, etc with it. Watch them run off, JUST like they would with a .22 hit in the same place (most of the time). Don't even THINK about using it on big dogs, cause you'll get your ass chewed, real good.

Why do you keep tripping over your tongue? You extoll a Phoenix Arms HP-22 (with a can) as a perfect self defense weapon, and then claim a 9X18 Makarov and a BERSA .380 have no stopping power. Read the ballistic charts! It's all right there. These M-21's and other .22's are back up's, not primary armament.

 

[DJetAce]

Jeff Cooper, no less, said reliability is number one. He said the piece has to be as realible as human engineering can make it. He said that was before stopping power or any other criteria.

 

[mrostov]

Cooper was correct, the weapon has to actually fire before anything else matters.

The Makarov has significantly more power than any .22LR, but less than a 9mmPara or a .45ACP. You can't go by kinetic energy alone, as if real life was a game like Dungeons and Dragons and we all worked off of nice, clean, 'hit points'. But, real life is different and there are several factors such as wound channel, hollowpoint expansion, momentum, etc.

However, the Makarov has 9 rounds (8rnd mag +1 in the chamber) and it also has been shown to have decent penetration of the chest cavity and very good expansion. When you pull the trigger on a Makarov, you know for a FACT that it will fire, cycle, and fire again. It's recoil is light enough and it's accurate enough that you can rapidly pump multiple rounds into the same general location on a target.

 

[Magnum88C]

The polymer-frame Kahrs are POSes. You shoot them too much rapid fire, the frame rails warp. Get the K9 or MK9 with the metal frames, and they're damn good little pistols.

Funny how people who've seen at least some combat, civilian or military, want reliable weapons above anything else. Mediocre shootists who haven't touched a gun in 20 years, and who've never seen any combat are the only ones who don't care for such things.

 

[SatCong]

Now Andy has hurt my feelings and stolen my joy for my new Bersa--boo-hoo!
Andy: As far as being too cheap to buy this, that or the other, I buy what I like, price is high, price is low, no problem, I bill my time at $187.50/hr, that's $1500.00/day. I can buy anything I want, so price is never an issue if I want the weapon. Now, you deleted derogatory, what kinda budget you got for your cobbed-up inadequate arsenal?
SatCong

 

[SatCong]

Glenn,
You are, of course, correct, my apologies. Though this is little in the way of defense, that ol' boy makes the red in my neck come to the surface, on occassion...
I'll try to behave.
SatCong

 

[Garand]

gunkid/erika, how much do you actually set aside each months for shooting accessories? I average about $200.00 a month on average, unless I buy another toy.

 

[Glenn Bartley]

SatCong,

Oh I understand fully, and empathize the same, please believe me on that.