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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
all attacks are NOT made with a gun. Most times, you DONT shoot a man in the arm first, before the bullet hits his chest. Cirillo's teams 40 shootings had FEW such problems, even against hard core armed robbers. What they DID have, in the way of a problem, was REPEATED failures to stop, even with MULTIPLE .45, 38, etc hits to the chest.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
a man with knife, club, rope, bare hands

is REALLY unlikely to make your bullet traverse the length of his forearm, before it strikes his chest. Even if he does have a gun, the 'arm first' hit is far from being commonplace, in civilian self defense shootings. So restricting yourself to loads that don't expand (in the interests of getting 12+" of jello-penetration) is STUPID in the extreme. I dont WANT a load that penetrates more than 8" of jello, because it will penetrate more than 10" of flesh, and that means that it will WASTE energy on the far side of the man, in the LIKELY event that the bullet strikes him frontally, in the chest, WITHOUT first striking an arm or other obstruction. You have to go with the ODDS, because nothing is perfect.
 
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