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If it weren't for law enforcement and govt (laws) you would be worm food right now.

RIKA
 

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andy said:
I wouldn't BE a cop. we'd be better off WITHOUT cops. all they do is get in the way of PROPERLY dealing with crime. They PREVENT people's carrying guns, they PREVENT the shooting of thieves and thugs. they PREVENT the mining and boobytrapping of property.
Just remember those selfsame cops are the only reason you and your type are not dead.
There'd be one hell of a lot fewer gangbangers and dope pushers around without cops.
In fact, there might be a rope shortage if not for police.
 

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Magnum88C said:
Just remember those selfsame cops are the only reason you and your type are not dead.
There'd be one hell of a lot fewer gangbangers and dope pushers around without cops.
In fact, there might be a rope shortage if not for police.

You don't need rope, just a microwave oven with the door removed and the safety disabled. Just hog tie them and stick their head in for a few minutes on 'high'. If you had to you could do it in assembly line fashion.
 

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mrostov said:
You don't need rope, just a microwave oven with the door removed and the safety disabled. Just hog tie them and stick their head in for a few minutes on 'high'. If you had to you could do it in assembly line fashion.

ha! and if the power grid goes down , you could always stick a 20min. fusee
[road-flare] up- there ass, and let-em make a run for the river!
 

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Discussion Starter #25
andy said:
I wouldn't BE a cop. we'd be better off WITHOUT cops. all they do is get in the way of PROPERLY dealing with crime. They PREVENT people's carrying guns, they PREVENT the shooting of thieves and thugs. they PREVENT the mining and boobytrapping of property.
You misquote. YOU couldn't be a "Cop". You don't have the discipline, self-control, or common sense to be in Law Enforcement. I wore a badge for twenty three years and before I even hit the GLYNCO Academy I went through three weeks of pre-training on charecter analysis, stress management, and levels of force management. You, by your anti-COP stance, admit that you don't have a clue of what being a COP is all about.
 

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mrostov said:
You don't need rope, just a microwave oven with the door removed and the safety disabled. Just hog tie them and stick their head in for a few minutes on 'high'. If you had to you could do it in assembly line fashion.
Yeah, that would work, but there's more mess when their cranium explodes.

Keep in mind, i'm not talking about dropping them from a gallows, I'm just talking string 'em up and let 'em strangle.
 

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Cops need firearms to do their job. Full auto/burst fire is a bad option for them though.

They generally do not practice much and don’t have good marksmanship skills.
Not to denigrate the general abilities of most police.
Most police are never in a situation where they have to fire their weapons.

Usually they only do the minimum amount of pistol work to qualify. This may be firing their weapons once every six months.

I could go on and on about accounts where I have heard other cops and security personal working with cops and how they witnessed them handle weapons in an unsafe manner, have extremely poor marksmanship, and have shot perps with an ungodly amount of rounds, and mostly missed.

You don’t have to be a gun expert or expert marksman to be an officer. Most officers are required to complete a 60-hour course on weapons safety and usage. This is usually 40 hours of learning when to fire, and a couple hundred rounds of actual shooting.

I do not believe the average cop has the skills to wield a submachine gun or assault rifle accurately, read: safely in the city. They are responsible for every round downrange and I don’t think they can keep a burst-firing weapon on target. Lots of innocent people could be hurt by stray rounds.

Platt and Maddox out maneuvered the FBI; they didn’t [necessarily] outgun them. It was tactics that did them in. Maddox advanced on the target and kept firing on them. They were FBI agents, not combatants.

Most people don’t understand that cops are not soldiers and are not well suited for military style operations/tactics/weapons.
Most cops will not advance on a target that has fired on them and take them out when they are reloading, or etc.
Their job [usually] is not to kill the perp anyway.

I have no problem with an officer with a semi auto rifle or carbine. This actually makes sense in that they can be more accurate and not have stray shot pellets flying about the city. Most novices cannot shoot shotguns well.
 

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Chippathingy}Most people don’t understand that cops are not soldiers and are not well suited for military style operations/tactics/weapons. [/quote said:
and In a broader sense, the military is not well suited to being cops. Yet we see an increasing trend of using cops like the military and using the military as cops. I think the trend shouls be reverse and each be kept to their respective jobs. No offense meant to either, just that they are being put into positions of doing things they're not really trained for, and bad things happen because of it.

Also, I really don't see the need for cops to have semi auto rifles either, necessarily. There is still the tendency to spray and pray with a semi auto. They might be better served with a lever or bolt action. The name of the cops game, is precision use of the weapon, not suppression fire. Not to mention the fact that something that looks like a typical deer rifle will be more accepted by the public than Officer Joe, all decked out in the latest SWAT-like equipment (even though he's not SWAT).
 

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Magnum88C said:
and In a broader sense, the military is not well suited to being cops. Yet we see an increasing trend of using cops like the military and using the military as cops. I think the trend shouls be reverse and each be kept to their respective jobs. No offense meant to either, just that they are being put into positions of doing things they're not really trained for, and bad things happen because of it.
No argument here. We too often use our military as a police (“peacekeeping”) agency, rather than what it should be; a fighting force. We also too often see police departments acting way too militaristic; which creates a bad atmosphere and a bad (although predictable and understandable) response from, and perception by, the public they’re supposed to be serving.


Magnum88C said:
Also, I really don't see the need for cops to have semi auto rifles either, necessarily. There is still the tendency to spray and pray with a semi auto.
The tendency to ‘spray & pray’ has to be addressed, no question. But it’s not a “cop” issue. Goes back to the “good for cops AND citizens” thing; if we disallow them as being “too dangerous” for cops, we’d have to say the same for the population in general. Not a road I want to go down.


Magnum88C said:
They might be better served with a lever or bolt action. The name of the cops game, is precision use of the weapon, not suppression fire. Not to mention the fact that something that looks like a typical deer rifle will be more accepted by the public than Officer Joe, all decked out in the latest SWAT-like equipment (even though he's not SWAT).
Sometimes a lever- or bolt-gun would work equally well, that’s true. Dealing with rabid or downed animals, hostage/sniper situation, absolutely. But even out here in the boonies, there’s been twice I’ve had to clear buildings looking for the bad people, and a small semi-auto carbine makes much more sense than a bolt-action rifle for that situation. Carrying my semi-auto carbine has the same advantages and disadvantages as carrying my semi-auto pistol. It gives user the ability to shoot faster if necessary (a good thing), but it also allows (some would say encourages) shooting faster even if it isn’t necessary. For cops and everyone else, it’s up to the user to control himself.

The reason I personally don’t want full-auto on duty is the same reason I quit carrying my shotgun on duty several years ago. With the carbine, one pull of the trigger has one result; one projectile fired, which is very conducive to control if the user thinks about it at all. With a shotgun or a full-auto gun, one pull of the trigger sends multiple projectiles downrange, which (IMO) is inherently more erratic and dangerous.
 

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Very well stated Magnum, from the experience of 2 UN Peacekeeping missions I highly agree with you.
 

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John in AR said:
The tendency to ‘spray & pray’ has to be addressed, no question. But it’s not a “cop” issue. Goes back to the “good for cops AND citizens” thing; if we disallow them as being “too dangerous” for cops, we’d have to say the same for the population in general. Not a road I want to go down.
No doubt it's a civilian problem too, but since this was about cops, I limited my scope to that. Yes, spray 'n' pray is a bad thing (although humorous when going to the range and seeing the 'Gangtsa commandos' holding AKs sideways and spraying.). I wasn't saying that cops shouldn't be allowed to have semi autos, just that there's other actions that would serve the purpose just as well, and have less of a negative impact on the locals. Kind of like the argument for using a levergun as a home defense weapon, because the jury is more likely to look with favor on a man defending his home with "grandpa's old deer gun" than some (prosecutor-described) militia-survivalist-wannabe-commando-that-sits-at-home-in-all-of-the-latest-gear-from-the-army-navy-store-hoping-he-gets-to-shoot-someone-tonight.

As for clearing buildings and wanting a semi auto carbine for that, that's understandable, although I think some special training is in order. If your department isn't big enough for a SWAT team, it still might be advise to get some, or all of the officers trained for such (heck just to keep them from shooting each other). Fire control would of course be part of that training.

Nope, my firm belief is that police should be limited to what the average civilian can carry in their jurisdiction. Of course if that went into effect as law, the entire DC and LAPD would quit. Hopefully that would have cops lobbying for citizens to be well armed.
 

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Magnum88C said:
...Nope, my firm belief is that police should be limited to what the average civilian can carry in their jurisdiction. Of course if that went into effect as law, the entire DC and LAPD would quit. Hopefully that would have cops lobbying for citizens to be well armed.
100% with you on that. "What's good for the goose..." so to speak.
 
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