[andy]

said a "friend" of his got into a shootout with 3 gang members, emptied 2 mags of .45, fight wasn't over. in other words, he MISSED 15 times. So MISSING with 15more rounds would be a help?

he HAD cover, so all he really HAD to do was NOT fire, just peek with ONE eye, now and then, to make sure that they were not outflanking his cover. Have gun READY to fire, ie, be BACK from cover a bit, arm's STRAIGHT, gun aligned, but it takes a LOT longer exposure to be really ready to HIT anybody than it does just to peek and see that they AINT outflanking your cover. Peek different place, each time of course. If one of the pos's IS exposed, shoot carefully, of course. The history of gunfighting shows that HITTING 1-2 of them suffices to run off a BUNCH more of the pos's. All that gunfire means YOU have help coming, THEY have enemies coming. so WHO has to boogie, exposing self, hmm? Who only has to sit tight, be careful?

So WHY have no more power, in a BELT gun, than a 9mm offers, hmm? why have 127 grs at 1200 fps, when you can have 160 grs at 1200 fps? Most attacks will ALWAYS be "non-gun' in nature,and most gun attacks will ALWAYS be up close and fully exposed. For such attacks, the greater POWER of the .45 is still an advantage. the other crap, you just have to use your HEAD more, not have a bigger magazine. An "extra" 33% of power is always a good thing,if it doesn't hurt speed of repeat hitting, or concealability.

Hitting a bobbing head target, while ducking bullets yourself, is a losing proposition. u don't HAVE to try it(if you have cover) so why bother, hmm? NOT having cover is not an option against several gun armed attackers.You HAVE to move to cover, period, unless you can surprise, overwhelm them in the first 1 second of the fight. Wasting a lot of rounds, carrying inefficient ball ammo, TRYING to pierce the attacker's "cover" is a bs tactic. Many things out there stop 308 ball,much less 9mm ball. Like concrete flower-pots(or garbage-holders) engine blocks, etc.

 

[John in AR]

For the same reason I carry (and you yourself have advocated) extra mags for my CAR-15. You've said once you have "enough", more doesn't matter; imo, 127 grains at 1200+ fps is "enough" in a handgun for anti-personnel defensive use. There's no question that it's better than most of what's been used for decades in handguns, so while it may not be "perfect", if it fails, chances are it failed because of me, not due to an inherent inadequacy.

As far as not needing that many shots; that's almost certainly true. But while I haven't "needed" my spare tire in 11 years, and I've never "needed" the fire extinguisher in my vehicle, I'm not going to stop carrying them.

 

[andy]

because you can OPENLY carry a Glock. Few have that luxury. MOST people who ccw, do so ILLEGALLY, often where it's a felony to do so. Less than 1% of almost any state with "shall issue" laws actually bother with a ccw permit. Most states are NOT "shall issue', so what is left is SOME police chiefs sherriffs let you get a permit, but MOST dont, unless they KNOW you, or you contribute to their politcal agenda, etc.

So MOST DO have to worry about being "made" carrying concealed, and double stack mags are NOT helpful in that regard. 90% of the time, the defender never has to HIT anybody with ANY rounds fired. so just how much "help" is 15 rds, as vs 10? none, really. EVERY round a CIVILIAN fires is a potential MILLION $, several YEARS lawsuit. Thus, rounds that aint LIKELY to hit the attacker are VERY MUCH better off not fired at all.

 

[John in AR]

Again, true; but not what I thought we were talking about in the original post.

Concealability is definitely lost with a wider magazine. I do regularly carry my G19 concealed, but I'm somewhat larger than most, and even I have to be careful about it.