Let's say you have to engage two or three men at short range (10-20 yards) Would you fire double shots at each target or shoot once at each target and then cone back and fire again at any target that needs it? To keep it relatively simple. let's say that you cannot dive for cover nor run for it. You have to shoot it out, What would you do and why?.
Double Taps or Single Shots?
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I would shoot once at each target and then come back and fire again at any target that needs it. One bad guy may only need one shot while another may need more. At that close a distance the last thing I want to do is reload. I am assuming the regular Colt 1911 mag with one in the chamber (8 shots total).
RIKA
RIKA
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3,467 Posts
i would probably go single squezze point shooting, doing my best to make every rd. count as i would be locked into the hunched/cruoch firing position
giving everybody at least one the first go around.
i prefer a single stack .45/.38 snubbie.
that might change with a glock #31
thanks.
giving everybody at least one the first go around.
i prefer a single stack .45/.38 snubbie.
that might change with a glock #31
thanks.
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10,680 Posts
Depends on how the men are armed, how ready they appear for offensive action against me. I would centre of visible mass the immediate threat then neutralize the remainder in order of threat. Decisions on how many rds I would use would depend how much problem it was for the first man to go down.
20 yards is NOT close range, <font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font>. even 10 yds is damned long range, in fact, especially for engaging more than one man. You are very likely to have to fire MANY shots at EACH man to get him down, at 20 yds, so it's a non-issue. Get it up the the FAR more likely range of 10 ft, and I'd go with the "hammer", but that's cause I"m a proven ace. Most guys have no choice but to try to make one shot each suffice, because they are too damned slow to do anything else.
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You have proven nothing! Except in your own mind. others say you choke under pressure and their opinions are more reputible than yours is. You have no way of knowing how others react under pressure, so don't make an assumption about others, and start being honest to yourself!
There are several techniques. One is 'boarding house rules'. A variation of this is the 1-1-2-1-1. Others feel stacking is an option. Still others feel one should concentrate on one till they hit the ground. What is a pretty good bet is you will have to shoot on the move, and a fair chance one or more of them will move to.
Enguaging muliple attackers is not a set piece thing. Allot would depend on the situation. But no doubt there will be movement.
Enguaging muliple attackers is not a set piece thing. Allot would depend on the situation. But no doubt there will be movement.
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4,814 Posts
Darn, depends on a lot of things. What kind of gun I was armed with, what those guys were armed with, how much ammo I had, how much elbow room I have in back of me, and why they are after my butt.
My initial thought is to figure out who the leader is and take him out first. That just might take the wind out of the sails of the other guys. 10 to 20 yards gives me a little bit of breathing room to be backing up while firing. I think I would rather have one DOWN AND OUT definitely out of the fight rather than three wounded MAYBEs out of the fight.
But heck, if they are firing at me the whole time, and there is no cover around, then unless they are all very bad shooters, or I am extremely lucky, the situation will probably turn out very bad for me. They will be close enough that it is unlikely all of their shots would miss me. Ain't like in the movies....
My initial thought is to figure out who the leader is and take him out first. That just might take the wind out of the sails of the other guys. 10 to 20 yards gives me a little bit of breathing room to be backing up while firing. I think I would rather have one DOWN AND OUT definitely out of the fight rather than three wounded MAYBEs out of the fight.
But heck, if they are firing at me the whole time, and there is no cover around, then unless they are all very bad shooters, or I am extremely lucky, the situation will probably turn out very bad for me. They will be close enough that it is unlikely all of their shots would miss me. Ain't like in the movies....
they could EASILY all miss you, if all they had was .38 or 357 snubs, Rich(at 20 yds) IF you have sense enough to drop supine in the first 1 second of the engagement and get your wrists between your knees. Then you could run down and kill all 3 with a machete before they could reload. 
DA fire, with a snubby, it's EASY to miss the entire(upright) torso at 20 FEET, when you have no ear protection, and you are shooting really fast, even from a 2 handed, aimed fire stance,and know what you are doing. The punks dont, might well be firing one-handed and 20m is 3x as far away, and you will be moving to the ground (at first) then you will be a 10" circle as a target, and they will be ducking your return fire, seeing 1-2 of their number get hit, etc. If you know enough to be using an SA auto and are a real pistolero, they dont have much of a chance, really.
DA fire, with a snubby, it's EASY to miss the entire(upright) torso at 20 FEET, when you have no ear protection, and you are shooting really fast, even from a 2 handed, aimed fire stance,and know what you are doing. The punks dont, might well be firing one-handed and 20m is 3x as far away, and you will be moving to the ground (at first) then you will be a 10" circle as a target, and they will be ducking your return fire, seeing 1-2 of their number get hit, etc. If you know enough to be using an SA auto and are a real pistolero, they dont have much of a chance, really.
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I'm thinking one shot per, then give another dose as needed. If you have multiple aggressors knowing they will outnumber/outgun you, wouldn't they be more confident in taking you out, therefore less likely to have as much adreneline pumping through them, giving you a better chance of stopping them with one hit? Conversely, knowing you have the short end of the stick, wouldn't you be more apt to be able to function even if hit once or twice?
Please correct me if I've got my head up my Saddam on this, I admit that while I'm not a doctor, I did play one as a child.
Please correct me if I've got my head up my Saddam on this, I admit that while I'm not a doctor, I did play one as a child.
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5,603 Posts
It would definitely depend on the threat. If say,one is armed with a shotgun or rifle, I would concentrate my initial fire on him, giving him the adult dose of two rounds of .45 ACP. I would then pick the nearest assailant fire one round, then fire one round at the third assailant. Then I would scan for the still existing threat and fire as required to end the situation. If all this started at 20 yards, I would have sought cover instantly, but a man sized target at twenty yards is child's play to anyone experienced with a pistol. I would almost certainly be shot if the BG's had any experience at all. I train using double taps and even the Mozambique Drill in case of body armor, but with multiple threats even a split second second shot could cost you dearly.
"20 yards is NOT close range, *****. even 10 yds is damned long range, in fact, especially for engaging more than one man. You are very likely to have to fire MANY shots at EACH man to get him down, at 20 yds,"
Are you really that poor a pistol shot? I would think that a "proven Ace" IPSC 'tophand; would be able to do a lot better.
Are you really that poor a pistol shot? I would think that a "proven Ace" IPSC 'tophand; would be able to do a lot better.
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that's just it TERRY!
the shotgun/rifle is most certainly the worst of the worst 'threat'
at 20 yards a person should have some manuver room[cuz' the shotgun will tag you, if you don't tag it]
hopefully the B.G's are all G.K trained , and are shootin holes in their holsters/clothes/feet.[very fasssstttt]
thanks.
the shotgun/rifle is most certainly the worst of the worst 'threat'
at 20 yards a person should have some manuver room[cuz' the shotgun will tag you, if you don't tag it]
hopefully the B.G's are all G.K trained , and are shootin holes in their holsters/clothes/feet.[very fasssstttt]
thanks.
What will happen is since GK is a poor 'longrange' shot, even at 10 yards, one of those shooters will be at that range and nail his hide. Notice in any 7/11 you can have just about 10 yards INSIDE the store! Not to mention at the pumps.
How you react is a combination of training and temperment. While there are several good techniques for dealing with multiple opponets, your mindset, skill level (and that includes tactics as well as gun handling), and luck, yes luck, have a bearing. But as Clint Smith said, "I would rather be good than lucky because if you are good you can make your own luck."
How you react is a combination of training and temperment. While there are several good techniques for dealing with multiple opponets, your mindset, skill level (and that includes tactics as well as gun handling), and luck, yes luck, have a bearing. But as Clint Smith said, "I would rather be good than lucky because if you are good you can make your own luck."
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