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He chose a couple of Combat Commanders, a 38 snub, and a .32, something like the Keltec, I forget exactly what. I told him that if the .38 was "so handy", there was no real need to bother with the .32, and that if the .32 had "adquate" power, there was no reason to bother with the .38.

Also, what's the point of TWO big, heavy 1911's? If had some sense, and used one such for practice and an alloy compact 1911 for carry, be way ahead in the comfort and ease of ccw categories, and still WAY ahead of .38 snub in effectiveness, that's for sure.

3 RADICALLY different "feels" and modes of operation, and 2 of them VERY lacking in durability, so adequate practice with them would soon mean that they were reduced to junk.

Far better to just practice with an alloy 9mm Commander, and .22 unit, and use an SA auto for the ccw gun, pocket carry. If it's a locked breech 380, and it's LOADED correctly, it's more effective on animals than is .45 ball, or 230 gr jhps, from 3.5" barrels. They don't expand at ALL reliably in flesh at the pathetic 750 fps that they demo from such barrels, ya see. So they WASTE 1/3rd or more of their pathetic 270 ft lbs on overpenetration. The 380 can be set up to use ALL of its 320 ft lbs in the torso. While it aint great,it IS better. :)

If want minimal hassle, and expense, just get a used Kahr, steel framed 9mm compact for practice, carry the polymer framed compact, PM9 9mm. With the right loads in the 9mm, it beats 230 gr .45 jhp's from 4" barrels, in animal tests. No bs about "what happened" in some war (probably never happened at ALL, much less the way the teller CLAIMS it did). Just flesh and blood results. If a bullet doesn't expand in animal flesh, NEITHER with it expand in human flesh.
 

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andy said:
They don't expand at ALL reliably in flesh at the pathetic 750 fps that they demo from such barrels, ya see. So they WASTE 1/3rd or more of their pathetic 270 ft lbs on overpenetration. The 380 can be set up to use ALL of its 320 ft lbs in the torso. While it aint great,it IS better. :)
Andy, you are stuck on the depositing of energy and the notion of depositing energy.Here is a link to a paper by Fackler - take a good read of point # 4 in his paper on misconceptions.

He covers the MYTH of depositing kinetic energy quite well.

I fully expect you to debunk his findings, but he has a lot better crenditials than you do, and is a lot more reliable a source.

:devil:
 

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he's fos. The energy MUST be PRESENT, in order to HAVE an effect. The loads he evaluates aint GOT enough energy, nor were they the type to TRANSFER enough of it to matter any. He's dealing with 300 lousy ft lb, NON-expanding ammo. :) Expansion and energy DO show a value in how fast shot animals succumb. Men are MANY times more prone to shock than are animals, too. The diff between men and animals goes into MY column, as a benefit, not the reverse. The MORE energy and destruction you can lay on a man, the MORE likely he is to quit. Blood loss is ALWAYS too slow to be of any realistic help, in a sub 2 second type handgun situation. So why BOTHER to study what loads best equate to max blood loss, hmm? It's just STUPID,
 

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Good post Aslan. It's interesting to note that those who espouse energy transfer also tend to go for all the other misconceptions Dr. Fackler points out.
 

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LIKE WHAT? The misconception is ALL Fackler's, in that blood loss is WORTH having. It AIN'T, not in a typical civilian self defense shooting. LONG before blood loss can POSSIBLY stop the guy, he will have been able to twist your head around.
 
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.357 SIG is almost 100 percent effective as-is. The .40 S&W is well into the 90s. So is the .45, and even the 9mm gets into that.

If the energy transfer was so right, then why do some people keep fighting after being hit with 5.56 or 7.62 or even 12 guage shotguns? Now shouldn't the 12 guage be 100 percent as it's so much more than even several .460 rounds?

See, I've already shown your THEORY as being FOS. Didn't talk long. You lose, I win. Like always.
 

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Marshall is just a LIAR. NOT EVEN THE 00 BUCK blast is better than 95%. So the only "reason' you have to believe the bs you spread about the 357 Sig is a lousy score of shootings. You can see WELL over 60% effectiveness, in a score of shootings, from the .22 lr and a couple of good chest hits.
 

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First of all, the Marshall data is for ONE shot stops. "A couple of good hits" with a .22 don't count. As for there being only a score of shootings in the data for the .357 Sig, there's not any one round in the M & S that has statistically significant data. And there's NO data, whatsoever for your cobbled rounds.

Second, NOTHING but a CNS hit is a guaranteed stop. If someone stops instantly with less than that, it's because they wanted to. No energy dump is going to change that. So, failing to get the CNS hit, or the target that is willing to stop, you simply have to do enough damage that they can't continue. A shallow nasty wound does not do as much meaningful damage as a fully penetrating round.

Contrary to some's opinions, all of the premium hollowpoints for self defense were designed to open up shooting humans. These aren't the crap that someone locked in the 70's thinks they are. That's why all of the premium HPs perform about the same. The larger calibers simply having more margin for error.
 
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