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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
rifle,tho. Scope has some use, both for foraging and sniping, but mostly belongs in a hard belt case, for use as a substitute for binocs, because you should AVOID being in the open, in daylight. I favor used Leupolds, at no more than 25%of retail cost, usually found at gunshows and stripped off of a rifle there. The 2x7 Compact is the choice for the shtf CAR-15. Normally, when on the rifle, it's left on 2x, for the wide field of view and speed of hitting. I favor a simple Duplex x hair, with its potential for use as a rangefinder. If such a simple "ranging" method doesn't suffice, it's a shot you probably shouldn't be taking, as a civilian survivalist, with ANY rifle,much less an 11" CAR-15 223.
 

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Get with the program JD

223 fan said:
I favor a simple Duplex x hair, with its potential for use as a rangefinder. If such a simple "ranging" method doesn't suffice, it's a shot you probably shouldn't be taking, as a civilian survivalist, with ANY rifle,much less an 11" CAR-15 223.
Oh, I don't know about that, both of these rifles get the job done well past the effective range of an 11" CAR :p LOL





Teuf,
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
only if the guy holds STILL, in daylight

in open country, and if he's that stupid, he's no threat to you anyway. I'm safer to shoot at somebody at 300m with a CAN on the CAR, than you are at 600m with a noisy 308, even the M1A, and I'm a LOT more likely to get the HIT, too. If you dont HAVE to hit, why shoot, hmm? Especially when the noise is likely to just create MORE problems.

Also, dummy, neither one of those sights is ELECTRONIC.
 

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How "safe" you are at any range has to do with many factors

600 yards is pretty damm far and shots from that range are very hard to detect if the rifleman knows what he's about. At 300 yards you are far more apt to be seen and far more apt to be hit by any bozo with a 100 yard zero and a bit of luck. I've been around suppresed weapons they aren't that damm quiet, especially one not using subsonic ammo or a bolt closure device.

It's all about a doctrine refered to as "ballistic advantage".

My comment still stands that it's ludicrous you think no other rifle can reliably hit any farther out than a 11" CAR 15.

Teuf,
 

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I do much better with scopes.

My 45yo eyes have a hard time with iron sights. While I have read that aperture sights are supposed to be much easier on old eyes, I especially have a hard time with the sights on my CAR for some reason. I have a hard time getting the front post in focus. I don't have this problem with Garand or M1A sights. I can shoot open sights easier and better than the CAR sights.

Hey Teuf,

Been wonderin' where you been. I sent you a PM over at PN a while back but haven't seen you around there. PN is becoming a ghost town lately. Anyway, what the PM was about ... you recommended the ACOG to me a while back, and I had an opportunity to trade on a TAO1b and was wondering if that would work on an AR using heavy bullets or would the ranges be off real bad.

Good to see you again.

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
u aint been around a GOOD one, cause

it's VERYT hard to tell where a shot from a GOOD can came from. I never said other guns can't outreach an 11' CAR. I said the surivalist doesn't HAVE to reach any further, so why LIMIT yourself to the guns that can do so? they CAN'T do other things that DO need doing, like concealing,and being handy with a good can attached. Regardless of what the GUNS can do, simply staying staying in either thick cover or darkness means you don't HAVE to shoot at more range than the CAR offers, and the can means that the "shootees' have no CLUE where you are. Sonic crack is as likely to point them 90 degrees to one side or the other as it is to point them at the suppressed shooter. I'm TELLING you, man, a GOOD can on an 11" 223 makes less than HALF the noise of a .22 rifle using subsonics. It has about the noise of a CB Cap from .22 pistol, but "flatter" sounding, less of a "carrying", location-determining sort of a sound. Guys TRY to blow a LOT of smoke up everyone's ass about how their "k" baffles, etc are "so efficient. I'm TELLING you, annealed bronze screen wire "donuts, in the rear half of the can, aluminum screen in the front, a "sleeved" can, rear half of inner tube vented into the "sleeve" area, and washers interspersed with the donuts, makes a VERY effective can, and the baffles and washers are SIMPLE to make.
 

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A good .308 means never having to say sorry. If Your enemy is in range so are You(Murphys Rules Of Combat). Why would you want a woodchuck rifle cartridge as the "EndallbeatallBuckRodgers'ssupernuclearplanetbuster", and not feel undergunned is beyond me. I was in SWA Feb-Sep91, and carried the M-203, but kept a M-60 on my recovery vehicle as backup, because if I can see them they can see me. .223 is a decent round but not the best, and .308 really can turn concealment into cover under certain circumstances. In hte real world a mutant cannibal like youself would only succeed in causing a breif fear wave followed by a manhunt and weiner roast by the locals. Have A Nice day, Inspite Of It All
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
yeah, sure, all the local men will ABANDON

their families, to chase a will o the wisp for weeks on end, HALF of them being silently shot, while their famiilies fall victims to OTHER predator types. You are so fos that I can smell you from here.
 

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JD

As a civvy in a SHTF situation there is no way to know how the tactical engagments could play out. Saying that folks will never need any more range and peneration than offered by a 11" CAR is silly.

Shooting from 600 yards with a 7.62 from a prepared position, those recieving the fire are going to have a hell of a time figuring out where the shot came from if the rifleman knows what he's doing. There is a whole bunch of things a rifleman can do make sure of that.

You grossly over play the issue.

Teuf,
 

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Mike

Mike in NC said:
Hey Teuf,

Been wonderin' where you been. I sent you a PM over at PN a while back but haven't seen you around there. PN is becoming a ghost town lately. Anyway, what the PM was about ... you recommended the ACOG to me a while back, and I had an opportunity to trade on a TAO1b and was wondering if that would work on an AR using heavy bullets or would the ranges be off real bad.

Good to see you again.

Mike
My ACOGs have 5.56 reticles and require a touch of hold-over at ranges past BSZ with 75's, but not much we are talking a high chest vs. point of aim point of impact. I bought 5.56 reticles because I know when my 75's are gone, it's nato spec time.

The first ACOG I bought was to take to Desert Storm with me, M2's and ACOGs where not as common in that conflict as they are now. I knew I would be using NATO spec ball so thats the way I went. I know guys are using 7.62 nato reticles on thier 5.56 shorties with heavy bullets and they are a tad closer.

However, I don't think it's all that big a deal, the come-ups for 5.56 and 7.62 are pretty close out to 500 yards anyway. Past that, the BC of the 7.62 edges out the mag tolerant length 5.56's pretty fast. Thats of no real concern since 500 is way on the outside edge a CAR15 anyway.

Bottom line, I stick to the 5.56 reticles for my 5.56 rifles.

There are so many variations of ACOGs a guy can go silly picking the "best" one for his use. For AR's I like the 3X Compacts that mount right to the top of the carry handle. They are about the same size as the old Colt Realist scope.

Teuf,
 

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What I find interesting is this:

If JD lived in suburbia or an urban area, and was going to stay there, he might have a point with his sawed off AR - a glorified pistol.

BUT.....

He admits readily that he lives in Pagosa Springs, Colorado. He's already in prime .308 country.

He's in one of those areas where you can actually take advantage of the extra range that the .308 has - and may need to.

He's not near any major urban areas, and those that are the closest are not only quite a ways away, but there are mountain ranges and other harsh terrain features acting as barriers that would greatly help keep people out of the area.

He's in horse country to the max. He's almost as well located as Teuf, more so if that frigging volcano blows.
 
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