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Obviously, greater capacity was the goal for this new cartridge. But it came at the expense of ballistic performance as it relates to self defense; my opinion. For me a .380 is the absolute minimum for effective self defense. Yes, better bullet designs and other ammunition advances have improved the performance of the .380 but it should still be relegated to a last choice option. The 9mm has benefited from those same ammunition advancements. But it is forced to perform near the bare minimum FBI protocols when chambered in short barreled subcompact handguns. Yes, these incredibly small handguns are the current trend or fad, however you want to look at it. I would choose the 9mm over the .380 any day but wouldn't consider either if other options are available. This .30 Super Carry is supposed to bridge the gap between the .380 and 9mm. I think Federal is splitting hairs on this one. Adding yet another marginally effective cartridge to the self defense market, that only really provides for greater capacity, isn't going to help the armed citizen when that moment of truth comes around. Looking at shooting statistics, that extra capacity doesn't matter when most shootings are finished at gunshot number three. Most armed citizens will be lucky just to have enough time to get one shot off during that life or death incident. That one shot needs to have the potential to either stop the threat or significantly debilitate the attacker to the point of increasing the survival rate of the victim. Marginal self defense cartridges, while easier to carry around town and comfortable to shoot at the range, are not reliable threat stoppers. An outside the vital zone strike with one of these rounds doesn't debilitate effectively either. The .380, 9mm, and the new .30 Super Carry only expand to around .5 inches while reaching minimal FBI penetration standards. If you're going to carry one of these cartridges, you better hope you can get that first, if not the only round fired, into a vital zone before your attacker wins the engagement. I'll stick with my .45ACP. I know it will expand to about 1 inch and easily reaches FBI penetration standards. Even if my first or only round fired doesn't strike a vital zone, if I'm on target anywhere, my attacker will be significantly debilitated by the .45ACP. And that may be all the advantage I need to win the engagement. Capacity plays virtually no role in most self defense situations. If you need 12, 15, 17, or more rounds in your handgun magazine, you should consider carrying a long gun instead.
Just my opinion.
Feel free to respond with your opinion.
 

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I don't know anything about the new .30 Super other than a couple video reviews I happened across. But I agree with the ".380 as a minmum" thing, and would also say that as the calibers get smaller, more thought needs to go into the ammo choice in that caliber. A long time ago my carry guns used to be strictly either .45acp or .357 magnum. If I was carrying an auto it was in .45, and if I was carrying a revolver it was in .357 magnum; period. But that was also back when the only decent-quality true pocket-auto options were .25acp and smaller. The fact that I can now have a .380 that's smaller, thinner, and lighter than a Raven .25 was, is worth factoring into the decision imo.

Also, as you say, the ammo options have gotten better over the years, so the performance gap between typical service calibers isn't near as wide as it used to be. When I carried a little detonics .45 auto, it carried six rounds that were 185 grains at 816 fps; the old Federal 185-grain JHP '45C' load. The same load thru the larger govt model got a slight velocity boost, running right at 895-900 fps. So 275-330 ft/lbs, depending on whether I was carrying the big gun or the small one.

The specific reason I finally relented and went 'down' to 9mm was when I got into law enforcement in the 90's. We were in a very rural area, with only two or three deputies on duty at any given time, so backup was a long ways out. Plus the 1911 doesn't do as well at sloughing off environmental crud (mud, rain, etc) as a more modern design (of whatever caliber). So those were the reasons I switched to glock and to 9mm back then; compromising in size by going to a 19 instead of 17, since it would work better for ccw use as well.

Another big thing the 9mm has going for it nowadays is that so many of the ccw-oriented guns are made in the caliber; a lot more than are made in .45, .40, etc. And that, combined with the better manufacturing we have today makes for some very good concealed-carry options. This is one of my favorite "9mm vs 45" pics. They're both 7+1 capacity, and both run 400+ ft/lbs with with good modern ammo.
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The size difference has gotten so substantial that I've gone back up from the 7+1 G43, up to a 13+1 P30SK, and still much smaller & lighter than the govt model.

All that said, the .45 is still king as far as "top end" capability of the two, and is also one of the very few calibers that I almost don't care what ammo it's carrying. If all I had was fmj in .45acp I wouldn't be terrified, where fmj in 9mm isn't nearly as good.

But overall, it's inevitably about compromises. If magazine capacity was the only factor, we'd all be carrying .22 magnums. If bullet velocity was the only relevant factor, we'd all be carrying .22TCM's. If bullet size was the only factor, we'd all be carrying .577 Webleys. Whether we carry a 45, a 9mm, a .380, a .357 Sig, whatever, our choice is inevitably a compromise between those multiple competing factors. For me personally, any caliber from 9mm on up is fine, as long as I get to pick the ammo it's loaded with. My favorite line in these caliber-debate threads was one I read somewhere, but don't remember exactly where it was. I wish I could claim it as my own, but just something I read.

The guy said something along the lines of, "If you hit the target where you need to, it doesn't matter if you're using a 9mm or a 45. And if you DON'T hit the target where you need to, it still doesn't matter." I've never been able to argue with that.
 

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I see this caliber as a marketing gimmick to generate sales. This will appeal to younger shooters with excess cash in their jeans that need the biggest and the newest toy on the block. Older shooters just try to improve on what they currently own.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I see this caliber as a marketing gimmick to generate sales. This will appeal to younger shooters with excess cash in their jeans that need the biggest and the newest toy on the block. Older shooters just try to improve on what they currently own.
I agree. I also understand the desire to generate sales. But making a profit by misleading consumers, that may well rely upon the product with their lives, is pushing the limit. The industry emphasis on ever higher magazine capacity as a marketing metric is driving all this. It's as if the industry has forgotten about the importance of ballistic performance. Products that just meet the FBI protocol standards will never be as effective for self defense as those that surpass those standards. I'll keep improving on what I currently carry.
 

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No new calibers! I did a recent inventory and if you include .22LR and .22 Magnum, I have 11 Calibers for handguns. Crazy! If they wanted a .30 Caliber so bad, the 7.62X25 MM is out there. Granted it's a bottleneck, but it's one smoking hot round. Is there even a gun made yet for the .30 Super Carry?
 

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The new CSX is, and there was one other; maybe the Shield..?
What do think the gun/cartridge would replace or do better than the 9MM Compact and sub compact guns we have now? The .380 and 9MM's seem to have that niche bottled up.
 
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No idea other than the thinner cartridge giving either more rounds in the same size gun, or the same number of rounds in a smaller gun. It's not something I'm interested in, but with the trend seemingly going more & more toward smaller & thinner centerfire carry guns, I'd assume that's the reason; at least that's all I can come up with.

{edit - got curious about what guns it can be had in. Turns out that besides the CSX, it's available in the M&P 2.0 as well as the shield and Nighthawk Custom also has some 1911/2011 platforms in it.)
 

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No idea other than the thinner cartridge giving either more rounds in the same size gun, or the same number of rounds in a smaller gun. It's not something I'm interested in, but with the trend seemingly going more & more toward smaller & thinner centerfire carry guns, I'd assume that's the reason; at least that's all I can come up with.

{edit - got curious about what guns it can be had in. Turns out that besides the CSX, it's available in the M&P 2.0 as well as the shield and Nighthawk Custom also has some 1911/2011 platforms in it.)
So many, so quickly! Someone thinks it will take off.
 
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Stumbled across an ad for a 1911 in this caliber. Holding 12 rounds in a single-stack 1911 makes me wonder how many a double-stack Para-Ordnance / 2011 type gun would hold. Maybe 20 or 21? Absolutely not getting into the caliber; the capacity potential just struck me as interesting.

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Just like the .22 semi-auto's. 10 then 15. then 16, now 20, with a 25 round in the works, and don't forget Kel Tec's 33 round one. There's no way I'm buying another new caliber, but it is interesting.
 

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Has anyone heard anything about this caliber in the last 4 to 6 months?
 

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The ammunition is on the shelves at some of the big box stores like Cabela's. I don't recall seeing guns in that caliber for sale, but I was not looking that hard. Another here and then gone effort?
 

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I've seen the handgun S&W and the ammo at a LGS when it came out but that's about it.

I might be interested at some time but it would be in the form of a true pocket pistol.
 
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