Firearm Forums - Arms Locker banner
1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,118 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
If the SHTF right now, say about 20 miles away from you, what would you do? For this particular[ thread when I say if the SHTF I do mean that it is a cataclysmic type of SHTF or a TEOLAWKI deal. Maybe a nuke attack, a dirty bomb, or a bio or chem attack - maybe all of them combined with suicide teams spraying automatic weapons fire ito the panicked crowds. Whatever it is, it is big and it is widespread over many areas. This is the big one we have all been praying would not happen, but for which we have all been preparing. It is very likely that panic has ensued or will follow among most of the unprepared as they try to get away from the ground zeroes of the attacks.
The thing is though as Mr. Murphy would have it, our well made plans already have a flaw, the routes to our hoped for retreat are either blocked by the masses of panicking victims, or are under attack, or have been in someway benn made unpassable because of the attack. Not just the roads either but the surrounding countryside is not passable if that is you expect to live, maybe because of chem or bio agaents or radiation or because of a forest fire. There is no other direct route, any alternate route would be through an extreme danger zone or simply impractical. If you are going to get to it safely you will have to wait until things die down.

You have to make up your mind quickly as to what you would do. Do you try to hold out in your home, or do you take what you can and flee even when you cannot head in the right direction to reach any preselected rendevous or hideout or weapons cache for which you had so carefully planned.

If you decide to stay, or if you decide to high tail it out of there what gear do you take with you? Do you enlist the assistance of your neighbors, friends or family who are close enough to you?
I wondered about this one after enjoying the six 5 gallon jerry can can thread, and after reading just three words in one post of that thread. They were
and extra people
In those three words may sit the key to our survival or the crux of the problem for some people who do not survive. For those who would have a problem with banding together maybe the truth of the matter would be that some would not be able to make a stand or travel with other people because they are extremely poor with interpersonal skills to the point of being an extreme irritant to others, or that they do not trust others enough, or that some people would band together only to take advantage of weaker members of the group, etc. For those who would band together, would it have been better to have stayed a lone wolf even if you would have picked allies who were trustworthy and even if you had great interpersonal skills.

1) So would you stay or would you go, under my described situation, and why?

2) Would you try to survive alone, or would you try to find strength in numnbers, and why again?

I guess that in many of these threads I fall ito the trap of talking as if I would be alone; but I think mainly because that is how someone else started the talk that way from the beginning and I just fell in with it. Yet I think I often interject that it would be a good idea to find strength in numbers so to speak. I know that if I were to take off, my wife, my daughter and my son would be of primary concern to me, and we would if at all feasible flee together. I would not find myself riding down the road on a bike with 6 extra gas cans, and suddenly realize my wife or one of my children had been left behind because I had no room for them. Of course because my daughter is about 40 miles or so away from us, she may have to go it on her own in another direction than we would travel for instance say if NYC were nuked or attacked with bio or chem agents. She would go north and we would go east. We would head to safer haven. My wife has already been given instructions on what to do if NYC should ever be hit and I am at home to give guidance; and I think she is intelligent enough to realize that this covers other local areas that maybe hit but are outside of NYC. I have to speak some more to my daughter about this, and I have to do it soon before the SHTF - enough said on that...

As for us, we have water, food, guns, ammunition and other supplies that would be thrown into the Ford, and off we would go on, hopefully, an adventure with a happy ending.

Well what would you guys do?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,117 Posts
there's other motorcycles, ya know. :) I happen to live in one of the very best areas in the US for staying in place, but I'd never stay in an above ground building, just waiting to be burned out, shot, etc. I'd still take to the woods, which fortunately begin just 1/4 mile from my home, and there's fringes of trees on the way, actually. Guys make way too big a deal out of finding food. You dont need food for weeks, unless really working hard, in really cold areas. The main threats will be weather, insects, diseases, fire and men. Men are likely to be anywhere, so being abroad in daylight, except in pretty thick cover, will be very dangerous. I could go a few miles in any direction, almost anywhere, and be ok, but then I have every intention of popping the first cow I see, and jerking her flesh. Whereever she was getting feed and water, there's probably several sacks of grain to be had., or ground feed, too. So once have 400 lbs of meat, and several hundred lbs of grain, you are good for a year, given only one person. In fact, if there is any additional "wild" food at all, "just" taking the rear quarter off of a beef, horse, big llama, etc, would go a long ways. Figure on getting the occasional dog, cat, crow, ****, etc. and some greens, as well as tubers, bark, cattail fruits, etc, and you will be good for a long time. even without having to eat other people.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,117 Posts
I have a bud, wife is friends with his mother, who might be worth taking along, if they could restrain themselves to immediate family only, and get ready to go in time. Depends upon how severe and widespread it is, how fast it all goes down, etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,950 Posts
easy, I'd stay put. No other choice. We've only got one car anyways.

At the present moment, I'm under no illusions that I'd be able to escape. If downtown Phx were rocked, the main artery freeways would be jam locked to hell. Have a wife, pets that are important, family (in laws) living downtown, etc. They'd have to fight their way to us.

Most likely the community would band together, the good guys would. There are a good number of LE and firemen that live in my development. Probably get a few sacrifical cars and put barricades up at each one of the entrances to the community. houses on the perimeter are sacrificed if needed, some two story houses would be designated as lookouts for key areas. Bonfires where needed, traps set up in strategic areas, etc. "circle the wagons" mentality. Might not be undefeatable, but at least it'll be a harder target.

Maybe one of these days, given enough time and money and NOT living near a major metropolis, I'll be as set as a lot of the folks who post here. For the time being, gotta make do with the present situation.

cheers
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,118 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Andy said:
Guys make way too big a deal out of finding food. You dont need food for weeks, unless really working hard, in really cold areas.
Or unless the area outside has been contaminated with a chemical element or a bio attack, or have been irradiated. It is possible that you were able to don protective gear before the stuff got to you, but all the cows, ***** and crows bit the dust or are infected. Yes I do like to at least have a few days supply of food and water at hand. This also would allow me to stay better hidden if need be. In other words no need to expose myself to possible enemy fire or to contaminants just because I had not been properly prepared in the first place.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,117 Posts
if all you are doing is holing-up, you can get by without any food whatsoever for many weeks. Many, MANY men have fasted for a month or more. With very little food, you can easily stay in a hole for several months. Sure, you might be skinny as a rail when you do come out, but if the alternative was to get sick-dead, so what? 1 lb of fat=food for 2 days, if just laying around(ie, 3500 Calories). Since nearly every man in the US has LOTS more body wt than the 2 lbs per inch of height that marathon runners carry, and not a lot of it is muscle, either, you can see that there's lots of room to give up some wt, without serious health threats.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,890 Posts
This would initially be a bug-in for me. Prevailing winds would blow and chemical, bio or radiation away from me if it happened over the nearest population center (actually 40 miles south or a smaller one 25 miles east). The initial panice would flood the roads, probably the back roads that spiderweb the area too, creating logjams that are excellent targets. It's doubtful the loons would come out this far looking to shoot their guns off. Even terrorists are smart enough not to start <font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font> with ******** in the boonies. If the situation was to become long term, then we'd use the offroad-capable vehicles and bug out after the initial panic had gone, at least a few days.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,277 Posts
My response is threat dependent. Depending on many circumstances. Regarding the chemical scenario, how many people actually have functional gas masks for their family? When is the last time your mask was checked. Whenever in the past, I have worked with chemical warfare agents, I grabbed a new mask and cannister before each potential expose. Prior to entering a work enviornment, I tested my mask in a sealed room that was saturated with banana oil. If you smelt the oil, your mask doesn't work. Knowledge of chemical warfare agents while not published on the web by my government, is readily available by your government

http://globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/

https://www.doctrine.usmc.mil/htm/doc3.htm

Nuclear fallout is a different question. Look at the area of fallout covered by Chernobyl (spelling?). There is a very interesting website that covers a motorcycle recce through the contaminated area. Gunkid/erika again proves that he has given no thought to any preparations at all. Deliberately starving yourself, for no matter how short of a time, just lessens your chances of survival. A starving man is no match for one that is well fed and rested. But then he thinks that we are going to be stupid enough to resupply him. I live on the bald a** prairie, there is open terrain on all 4 sides of me, traffic jams etc are really not a consideration depending on the direction that I choose to go if the balloon ever went up.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,118 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Yeah that not eating thing is ok if you are forced into into, have plenty of water and absolutely no access to food but why put yourself in that situation if you don't have to be in it!
 

·
Site Founder
Joined
·
4,814 Posts
Actually, I live in a pretty good area to just stay put. My land is heavily wooded, and there is an unbroken pathway through woods in most directions. To the west is the Apalachicola National Forest which is only 3/4 of a mile away, and only a few habitations between here and there. Not counting Tallahassee as a major metropolitan area the closest REALLY heavily populated city is 3 hours away.

There are SO many waterways, ponds, streams, lakes, etc around here that a person could live almost indefinitely on seafood. Heck, I know areas where fiddler crabs are so abundant that you cannot walk without crushing them.

So no, I don't think I would really be going anywhere unless it was fire heading my way. That particular SHTF scenario is a real possibility every year around here in the dry season.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,890 Posts
Whoa, sounds like where I live Rich, except I'm off of the Ocala National Forest.
Nice thing about fires is we basiaclly have a moat around the area, and even in the dry season, there's some water in it. (It was put in to drain water away to keep from flooding the yard. Even back n '98 when forest fires DID burn down most of the area around us, our area was untouched because the fire couldn't jump the moat. The big danger was smoke, so you pretty much had to stay inside, but we made it. Another SHTF that didn't happen I guess. . .
 

·
Site Founder
Joined
·
4,814 Posts
We've had a couple of close calls here. One time there were smoking embers falling onto out property. When I designed the house, I specified a tin roof, figuring living in the middle of the woods we might have fire to deal with. Many dwellings will catch on fire from burning embers landing on the roof and igniting the shingle tiles. Tin will resist that. Of course, in retrospect I guess I should have had aluminum siding put on rather than plastic. :poke:

Wish I felt comfortable doing controlled burns to keep a clean area around the buildings.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,117 Posts
A lot of people ARE going to have to. We import about 2/3rds of our food these days, and what's grown in Iowa does you no good in Idaho, once shtf shuts down transportation. In fact, food that's a "mere" 200 miles from u, if it spoils at all quickly, you will be most unlikely to get much use of. If you don't KNOW about it, or how to harvest, prepare it, it could be 5 miles from you, and go completely to waste.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,467 Posts
you know, i wondered about the shipping/ports/docks on 9/11
when the trade center towers became no more.

my guess; it was all ready in the pipeline.


it had to be a logistical nightmare for awhile, if i'm correct in my view
of what the world trade center was.


thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,117 Posts
if paper money aint asswipe, if there's still gasoline at the pump, still electricity and water for the turning of a switch or tap, it AINT shtf. It's just a minor blip, easily handled with no real strain at all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,277 Posts
But gunkid/erika, don't you have a track record of cracking under pressure. Your shooting buddies thought so, as I am told.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,944 Posts
One of the flaws in thinking that I've noticed with some people is that they are expecting a nice clean, one day apocalypse when everyone just goes nuts, they all run out of the city, and then conveniently die off over the next couple of months.

The two biggest dangers are attack and a severe economic collapse.

Most people will stay home first and foremost. The government will try and keep a lid of the situation, and there'll be martial law followed by food and fuel rationing, price and wages freezes, etc.

In a national emergency, the government wants everyone to stay put, and if they have to die, then they should die at home with a minimum of fuss. To this end there'll be other things like priobably a freeze on foreclosures and emergency Federal rules on rent control and a freeze on evictions.

It'll be a situation where things just get worse and worse, but through a great deal of it, most people will stay put, feeling that they cannot afford to flee and hoping things will get better. Most Americans are REAL reluctant to just abandon the titanic pile of material sh^t they've accumulated and they'll stay at home and stay tuned to the TV to learn how the government is helping them out of the mess.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,117 Posts
sure they will, when there's no water in the pipes, no juice in the lines, and no gas at the service station, money wont buy anything, and there's no food at the grocery store. :) Ha ha ha. There will be MASSIVE looting, killing, rape, and arson, within a couple of days. There aint enough cops to do jack squat, and the National Guard guys will be staying with their families. Many of the cops will do likewise, they wont be getting paid. nobody will, to include the firemen. Almost nobody has more than a few days water supply, and that's IF they know to tap what's in the water heater, and to take the flush handle off of the toilet, and to use a shovel and quicklime in the backyard. The towns and cities will BURN, dude. So will the dry pine woods, and the prairies and grain fields, most likely. Idiots with cigarettes, falling asleep drunk, or trying to burn furnitureand/or carpet in the oven, to heat the house. The fumes from the glue kills them in their sleep, and the fires then run amuck.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,467 Posts
sad, but TRUE!
i know i'll miss dearly my $1500 over stuffed leather chair[like a junkie needing a hit]

in an 'in-town/apartment' seninro[sp] by all means BOOGIE/BAIL/BUGOUT!


[what's holding a person down, poke a hole in the wall on your way OUT!]


GREAT POST MROSTROV!


THANKS,[my left handedness keeps throwing in that extra 'R']
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,944 Posts
andy said:
sure they will, when there's no water in the pipes, no juice in the lines, and no gas at the service station, money wont buy anything, and there's no food at the grocery store. :) Ha ha ha. There will be MASSIVE looting, killing, rape, and arson, within a couple of days. There aint enough cops to do jack squat, and the National Guard guys will be staying with their families. Many of the cops will do likewise, they wont be getting paid. nobody will, to include the firemen. Almost nobody has more than a few days water supply, and that's IF they know to tap what's in the water heater, and to take the flush handle off of the toilet, and to use a shovel and quicklime in the backyard. The towns and cities will BURN, dude. So will the dry pine woods, and the prairies and grain fields, most likely. Idiots with cigarettes, falling asleep drunk, or trying to burn furnitureand/or carpet in the oven, to heat the house. The fumes from the glue kills them in their sleep, and the fires then run amuck.
Describe how this will happen.... seriously, and no you and your prison buddies won't be starting it. Short of a nuclear strike, just how do you think this will suddenly all happen?

If you're hoping for a Randian style collapse where everything just falls apart just out of a dull funk and general mindlessness, think again. Ayn Rand, who named herself after a typwriter, was mostly full of sh^t on many aspects of what she was talking about.

Pay? The government has hundreds of billions in cash (emergency script) that they can pay their troops, local infrastruture personnel (cops, firemen, utility technicians, etc), and others with. It'll retain value about like the old Confederate currency did, but human nature dictates that people will accept it and it will be used semi-successfully, at least for a while, especially in a police state emergency environment with controls on prices and brutal penalties for trading on the black market (and there will be a huge black market).

Riots? Those are easy to control when it's martial law and it's shoot on sight. Much of the country's vital infrastructure is no longer in the minority populated older urban centers.

Water? Food? Fuel? etc.. RATIONING

Bet you didn't know that Big Brother already has emergency ration cards printed out.

The government will freeze evictions, rents, prices, wages, etc.

Unemployed? You've been drafted into the government labor force and you'll get paid in emergency script and ration cards.

Golly, sounds a lot like civilian life in Europe during WWII, huh?

FEDERAL EXECUTIVE ORDERS

10995 Seizure of all print and electronic media in the United States

10997 Seizure of all electric power, fuels, and minerals, public and private

10998 Seizure of all food supplies and resources, public and private, including farms and equipment.

10999 Seizure of all means of transportation, including cars, trucks or any other vehicles, including control over highways, harbors, and waterways.

11000 Seizure of all American people for work forces under federal supervision; it allows the government to split up families if they believe that it is necessary.

11001 Seizure of all health, education, and welfare facilities, public and private.

11002 Registration by the Postmaster General of all men, women, and children for government service.

11003 Seizure of all airports and aircraft.

11004 Seizure of all housing and finance authorities; authority to establish forced relocation, designate areas that must be abandoned as 'unsafe'. Establishment of new locations for population groups, building of new housing on public land.

11005 Seizure of all railroads, inland waterways, and storage warehouses, public and private.

11051 Authorize the Office of Emergency Planning to put the above orders into effect in times of increased international tension or financial crisis.
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Top