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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
(pretty much) and an upset customer can sue all they want, they'll get nothing. An attorney will see this, wont take the case, cause his 30%of nothing is still nothing. Lack of liability insurance for a smith is not the problem. Lack of enough (well paying) WORK is the problem. The hunters BURY you in work, for 2-3 months of the year, the rest of the year, you starve. Don't bother with a storefront for a smithing operation, you'll starve the first year. run it out of your basement until you have many dozens of happy customers. Your main income will be bluing guns, and it teaches you to dis and reassemble many,many types of guns.
 

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Hmmm. Thats an idea. Most of the gunwork I do now is either at the customer's home or in my home with customer present (if they're a friend) to keep it ATF legal. Just carry my tools in a toolbox. The stockwork is done at home because I don't need the entire rifle and it usually takes several days to get the refinishing right. Actually, gunsmithing isn't a moneymaker for me but rather a fun thing and I don't do it all that often.

RIKA
 

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Actually, there's more than simply forming a corporation involved to prevent losing everything if sued.
Talk to a lawyer. Yes, it will cost a few $$, but it's worth it. I know because that's what we did. We don't own anything, but our llp does, in conjunction with the family trust.

In this day and age, it's worth it. It's far too easy to sue or be sued.

But talk to an atty. Some will even do the initial consultation for free.

:devil:
 

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Asking Melvin for legal advice is about like asking Gen. Custer for tactics on fighting indians.

Either way you'd end up getting "sued".
 

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Won't work... if you are a principal in the incorporated unit, your personal belongings can be subject to any litigation against the corporation in some circumstances. This is especially true if you are doing work that should be insured. No way would I be smithing someones guns without a 1 million dollar personal liability insurance policy and a business insurance policy as well.

The cheap way will often cost you more in the long run.

Mike
 

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Hard Rock said:
Won't work... if you are a principal in the incorporated unit, your personal belongings can be subject to any litigation against the corporation in some circumstances. This is especially true if you are doing work that should be insured. No way would I be smithing someones guns without a 1 million dollar personal liability insurance policy and a business insurance policy as well.

The cheap way will often cost you more in the long run.

Mike
Unless you have no personal belongings, which is why we belong to an LLC (limited liability corporation, in conjunction with a trust that owns what would normally be our assets).

But, like I said, talk to a laywer.

Plus, I agree that you need the insurance.

I would not advocate doing it cheaply, as that may cost you more in the long run. Do it the proper way - get bona fide legal advice and have a lawyer do all the paper work and filings. Yes, the up front costs are higher, but the alternative is not so good if you screw it up.

:devil:
 

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Aslan, are there any tax advantages to your LLC and trust?

RIKA
 

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We purposely set it up not to have any tax implications - no audits and less filings required. We did it strictly for two reasons - protection against litigation and avoiding lengthy probate.

We could have done the tax shelter thing, but it would have required additional work on our part on a regular basis (filings and the like), so we decided not to go that route.

:devil:
 

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Forming a corp:

That will cost well over $1000 bucks.

Talk to a lawyer and that will cost you $ (and if you don't you are an idiot.)

Then you will have to file corporate INCOME TAX QUARTERLY. Failure to do so will send you to JAIL.

Depending on the state and locality you might also file income tax to the state and that county OR YOU WILL GO TO JAIL.

You will need a book keeper as if you screw up your tax figures YOU WILL GO TO JAIL. If you fake a profit that's called 'forceing a profit' and YOU WILL GO TO JAIL. And if you fake a lose, that's call tax evasion AND YOU WILL GO TO JAIL.

You will have to have a FFL, and a FFL will require you to have a 'storefront', even if it's in your house. If it's in your house your house is subject to search by the ATF ANYTIME.

You will also have to see if your house is zoned as a business. If not, YOU WILL GO TO JAIL.

You are being snookered by gunkid. He is making it look simple because he has never ran a business, never had an FFL, never been a gunsmith, and knows nothing about tax law. I have done most of those task above.
 

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DJetAce said:
Forming a corp:

That will cost well over $1000 bucks.

Talk to a lawyer and that will cost you $ (and if you don't you are an idiot.)

Then you will have to file corporate INCOME TAX QUARTERLY. Failure to do so will send you to JAIL.

Depending on the state and locality you might also file income tax to the state and that county OR YOU WILL GO TO JAIL.

You will need a book keeper as if you screw up your tax figures YOU WILL GO TO JAIL. If you fake a profit that's called 'forceing a profit' and YOU WILL GO TO JAIL. And if you fake a lose, that's call tax evasion AND YOU WILL GO TO JAIL.

You will have to have a FFL, and a FFL will require you to have a 'storefront', even if it's in your house. If it's in your house your house is subject to search by the ATF ANYTIME.

You will also have to see if your house is zoned as a business. If not, YOU WILL GO TO JAIL.

You are being snookered by gunkid. He is making it look simple because he has never ran a business, never had an FFL, never been a gunsmith, and knows nothing about tax law. I have done most of those task above.
We went through a lawyer. Because of the way we are set up, we do NOT have to pay quarterly taxes. We set up a limited liability corporation (LLC) in conjunction with a trust.

The only way to make sure it is all done correctly is to use an Attorney. Yep, it will cost you up front. But what it could save you in the long term outweighs the amount you will spend.

It did cause some additional work when we sold our old house and bought this one, as the LLC and the trust own the property - I think it added about 10 pages of stuff to the already large pile of paperwork involved.

:devil:
 

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Does the LLC and trust provide any protection from Asset Forfeiture law? Seems like the gov can take whatever they want, whenever they want and the person they take it from is just screwed.

RIKA
 

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Mike's right - to a point, but you need to check the laws - we did it more to prevent someone from suing us and wiping us out. The FEDS have the luxury of having the courts on their side...

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TODD 3465 said:
Asking Melvin for legal advice is about like asking Gen. Custer for tactics on fighting indians.
For the record, Custer did pretty dang good for the Yankkes during the War of Northern Aggression. His miliatry carrer wasn't made up of just that one blunder, and he wasn't the only one to ever kill a whole lot of men throguh stupidity!

Reminds me of that joke about O'Malley who built all of the ships in the town (but isn't called O'Malley The Ship Maker), built that long wharf the ships are tied up (but isn't called O'Malley The Wharf Builder), but is upset because people never forget if you screw JUST ONE goat.....

KJ
 

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Give Andy credit for offering an idea that brought up a whole conversation on the subject. He may not often be right but he stirs up enough conversation on a subject to make a lot of threads worthwhile. Stuff you and I never think about.

RIKA
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
look, dumbasses,just because YOU dont know jack crap about the legal advantages offered by a corporation doesn't mean that they don't exist. It just means that you are ignorant dumbasses, that's all.
 

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And YOU don't seem to know much about corporations, period. You HAVE set up a corporation before, haven't you? No? That explains that.
 

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Todd, I've ran several business. A corporation is like a seperate 'person', but you have to pay a income tax for that 'person', then your regular 'income tax' on any dividiends. All equipment has to be depreciated, and the depreciation schedules can be complex. Add to that, any inventory may very well be taxed localy. The inventory has to use such as FIFO, LIFO, weighted average, etc...

Zoning laws also apply to any business. And being a corporation the IRS will take more notice than they would otherwise.

And, of course, if any stock is issued, there is a whole nother ballgame with the FTC.

Don't let gunkid bamboozle you guys. He knows nothing of this and has never incorporated anything.
 
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