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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
223 fan
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raise lever, cock it, 2 torsos 25m, 5m
apart, after reacting to the timer's "beep", 5m between the torsos, 2.5 seconds is REALLY good. Flattop AR, optical sight, 1.3 seconds is not tough at all. :) You REALLY wanna handicap yourself like that? The lever action user will find it VERY tough to get the first hit in 1.6 seconds, and the CAR user can hit 3 men in that time. If the CAR user starts FIRST, eliminating his reaction time, and the guys are really close together, he can get 4 men in 1.7 seconds. If they dont know he's there until they hear the shot, it can mean that he kills 7 of them before they have a chance to do squat. If his suppressor hides where he is for a bit, it can mean 9-10 men with bullets in each one, from ambush,if they are all just stanging around smoking and joking, with rifles slung, etc. So, SMALL groups, hunting one man, can easily be in for the surprise of their lives. :)
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06-16-2004, 01:11 AM
#2
Magnum88C
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You stacked the deck, having the lever chamber empty, having to chamber the round before firing.

So even the playing field. Raise the AR, pull the charging handle, then start firing, like the lever.
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Old
06-16-2004, 04:38 AM
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Garand
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Last time I shot a man on man stage at a Cowboy action match at 5 targets between 15-50 yds with a Marlin M1894S, starting with an empty chamber it took me 6.83 seconds to hit targets 1 to 5. While all firearms should be used within their limitations, an armed hostile should never be discounted.
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typical, he handicaps the weapon he is trying to disparage - either with an empty chamber, iron sights, or a pistol round - against a loaded scoped rifle.

first shot from loaded chamber should be the same for both weapons - assuming same level of rifleman.

first shot from empty chamber should go to lever action - it's a much smoother action and better ergonomics.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
depends on the lever action, one in pistol caliber, yes. One in rifle caliber, no.
 

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I don't understand where these specific predictions come from. They're so dogmatically specific - like they're a law of physics or something - yet they're shown over & over to be baseless fiction.
 

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223 fan said:
The lever action user will find it VERY tough to get the first hit in 1.6 seconds
Gunkid - again, if you're genuinely interested in actual, measured reality, check the other thread you started ( lever= slower for 1st shot, too. ).

Did it four times, all recorded on video, with times of 0.48, 0.50, 0.45, and 0.56 seconds; an average time of 0.49 second. That's less than one-third the time that you say would be "VERY tough" to achieve; and I'm not any serious competitive shooter anymore.

And to re-post a short video that Garand shared - this guy starts not only with the gun uncocked, but with an empty chamber. At the beep, starting with a chamber-empty gun, he:
  • works the lever & fires a shot, then
  • works the lever again & fires a second shot, then
  • works the lever again & fires a third shot, then
  • works the lever again & fires a fourth shot, then
  • works the lever again & fires a fifth shot, then
  • works the lever again & fires a sixth shot, then
  • works the lever again & fires a seventh shot, then
  • works the lever again & fires an eighth shot, then
  • works the lever again & fires a ninth shot, then
  • works the lever again & fires a tenth shot,
in 1.55 seconds.

So in less time than you claim for a SINGLE shot, he's doing ten shots. Things aren't the same as when you competed, nor as they were when I competed. It's been 30+ years for you, and 25+ for me. We've been surpassed. That's life...


Edit - just saw that the video didn’t initially attach; very likely my error. This is the 1.55 second video that garand originally posted:
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Again Melvin fails to understand that in an emergency that any firearm can be used as a survival firearm, regardless of the type or style as long as you modify the tactics you employ to include the limitations of the firearm that you use.
 
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