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My opinion, based on experience, is that military rifles with full powered cartridges, (30/06, 7.62X51MM) are not suited to full automatic fire. M-14's are great, accurate rifles. Light machine guns, they are not. The FN SLR falls into this category. If you have ever fired a fully automatic M-14 you know that it's uncontrolable. Your first shot may be on target, the rest are anti-aircraft. Even it's M-14E2 guise, with a bipod, It skitters around and does not give a "beaten zone" or a cone of fire. Even at 12.5 lbs. the E-2 was 7 lbs. lighter than the BAR it was designed to replicate. I could fire an M-60 Machine gun from the shoulder and hip and keep the rounds pretty much on target. The M-60, however, weighs 23 lbs. The M-16A1 could be held pretty steady on full automatic and the M-16A2 was better. AK-47's can be fired effectively in the full automatic mode. Both the weapons fire an "intermediate" cartridge. The SAW was a great idea, .223 fired from a stable, full automatic platform. M-60's and FN MAG's for support. Once in a while we get it right. I don't like the M203's on M-16's, I think the M-79 dedicated grenadier was a better idea. But I'm an old war horse. Where is that flintlock?
 

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I gotta agree with you on the M79;nothing like a blooper to give the bad guys the blues.Full auto rifles?You're right there too,if I could shoulder it easily&it took a full house cartridge,you couyld say that groups were large :nyah: :scatter:
 

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In my youth, I carried the 7.62mm FN C2A1 for 18 months as a personal weapon as a young infanteer. great gun, it could provide immediate section support fire out to 600 meters. It was 15.5 pounds with a bipod. The soldier carried 5 x 30 rd magazines in a chest bandoleer. In open terrain, with a gunner that was proficient with his trigger control, it was very effective. It lost alot in dense forests and urban enviornments.
 

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Full auto requires a balance between cartridge and rifle. To much cartridge for the weight of the rifle will make it uncontrolable (like the M-14.) If you want a full auto battle rifle, try the RPK. Stripped of the bipod and lightend just a bit, it balances the 7.62x39 round very well. Since it uses a heavier bullet than a 5.56 and a longer barrel than an AK, it maximizes the potential of the 7.62x39.

It's what I would pick if I wanted a full auto battle rifle.
 

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a single shot,in a fight? No thanks. Now a 10 ga auto,modified to take a shortened 20mm AA rd, converted to throw a 2 oz riflel grenade,using a 10 shot mag, the gun weighing 9 lbs?, Yeah, I'd take one, with 3-4 mags. :) YOu could blow a man away who HAD cover, just by hitting the ground by his feet. half an oz of RDX, and 1.5 ozs of aluminum frags should have a 50% lethal burst radius of at least 1m.
 

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i thought it was the 'rpd' in 7.62x39
the pk series in 7.62x54r

the [1] fires linked ammo[s.a.w]7.62x39

i havn't seen/handled one in awhile,and havn't needed to be up to speed


your right i'm wrong never mind, but it still shoots a intermideate[s.p] rd

not 'battle rifle' power
 

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Discussion Starter #7
andy said:
a single shot,in a fight? No thanks. Now a 10 ga auto,modified to take a shortened 20mm AA rd, converted to throw a 2 oz riflel grenade,using a 10 shot mag, the gun weighing 9 lbs?, Yeah, I'd take one, with 3-4 mags. :) YOu could blow a man away who HAD cover, just by hitting the ground by his feet. half an oz of RDX, and 1.5 ozs of aluminum frags should have a 50% lethal burst radius of at least 1m.
What are you talking about? The post was about light rifles firing full size ammunition on full automatic, not about grenade? launchers. You really should lay off that coke. Who said anything about a single shot? Is it me, or is he getting stranger and stranger? 10 Gauge grenade launchers? Let me check Wal-Mart.
 

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erika/gunkid, please provide a source for the firearm that you describe.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Garand said:
In my youth, I carried the 7.62mm FN C2A1 for 18 months as a personal weapon as a young infanteer. great gun, it could provide immediate section support fire out to 600 meters. It was 15.5 pounds with a bipod. The soldier carried 5 x 30 rd magazines in a chest bandoleer. In open terrain, with a gunner that was proficient with his trigger control, it was very effective. It lost alot in dense forests and urban enviornments.
Garand I'm not knocking the FN. I think it would of been a better choice than the M-14. In my experience, it's too much cartridge for a 12 to 15 lb. rifle on full automatic. I have never seen anyone able to control one. The fire is going out there, but it's not aimed fire. You need more weight. I once served with a 300 pound Guamainien. Is the SP right? That swore he could control a standard M-14E2. 12.5 lbs. as I recall. Three 20 round magazines at one hundred yards. Five hits. Most at the top of the silohouette. A standard M-14 and you were all over the countryside. My opinion. I never fired a heavy barelled FN.
 

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Trigger control was the secret of the rifles success. Unfortunately in the militaries of today skill in marksmanship, is not as important as it used to be.
 

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Our qualifications with the rifle were out to 600 meters.

The last time I shot a machine gun in competition, it was for "honors" at a Provincial service rifle match. I fired a World War 1 Lewis gun against the Canadian Forces C9 Machine gun, you call it an M249. I won by the way!
That left alot of embarrassed people, because I wasn't eligible to compete, because I wasn't using a machine gun in current use.
 

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Back in the early '80's I was on the range as my units Chief RSO running the annual qualification. I had some spare time so I took the full auto parts out of the C2 auto rifle and put them into the C1 semi auto rifle. I tried a standing 3rd burst at 100 yds. Aiming at the ground for the first round by the time the 3rd round went down range I was aiming over the target.

The C2 was a great system for what it was designed for, but it always worked better with 20 rd mags than 30 rd mags.
 

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a single shot,in a fight? No thanks. Now a 10 ga auto,modified to take a shortened 20mm AA rd, converted to throw a 2 oz riflel grenade,using a 10 shot mag, the gun weighing 9 lbs?, Yeah, I'd take one, with 3-4 mags. :) YOu could blow a man away who HAD cover, just by hitting the ground by his feet. half an oz of RDX, and 1.5 ozs of aluminum frags should have a 50% lethal burst radius of at least 1m.
you bring up all kinds of weird sh!t that has zero to do with the discussion that the adults are having. Are you hallucinating?
 
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