Firearm Forums - Arms Locker banner

1 - 20 of 30 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,117 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
reagansquad - I am in Canada, and I doubt that you want to come here if you want to keep all your guns.

Registration is required (as you know already).

CCW is a laughably distant dream for Canadian gun owners. There is a mechanism for obtaining a permit for carry, but it is in reality non-existant. I think there are 3-5 permits in the whole country.

No mags that can hold more than 10 rounds.

No handgun bbl. under 105mm (approx. 4.13 inches according to Google)

No handguns of .25 or .32 calibre allowed (some exceptions for target shooters)

Rifles cannot hold more than 5 rounds (!)

Many weapons are on a prohibited list.

You also must be licenced to own a gun (stricter reqs for handgun owners)

Weapons must be stored according to stringent laws regarding being locked and unloaded.

Authorization to transport your handguns to the range must be granted (and handguns cannot be shot anywhere outside of approved ranges)

And on and on and on...

Check this site out for more details http://panda.com/canadaguns/
or the official site
http://www.cfc-ccaf.gc.ca/en/default.asp

All I can say is - the grass is definitely not greener on my side of the fence! Good luck to you in your job search (I suggest you restrict it to the US!)



Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

November 3rd, 2004 02:15 PM



All times are GMT. The time now is 03:27 PM.


Last Thread Next Thread

Show Printable Version | Email this Page | Subscribe to this Thread
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,648 Posts
I don't recall Garand saying anything about CCW, and nothing else in the article contradicts anything he's ever said.

Why not point out the specific parts of the post that you feel are in direct opposition to what Garand has claimed?

Can you do that? Or are you just relying on non-specifics to somehow prove whatever it is you think you are proving?

:devil:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,117 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
guy just recently posted this on THR. I was told 25 years ago that the handguns had to stay at the range, by a top IPSC hand, who came to shoot our 1978Natl's. Think his name was Murray.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,648 Posts
I was in Canada last year, I went to several gun stores to check things out. You do need permits for everything, but you can buy rifles and pistols. They do not have to stay at the range. (There are storage requirements and transportation permits.)

Their laws are pretty strict, more so than ours. I know, and Garand can speak better then I on this, that Garand is grandfathered on many of the guns he owns.

But, Andy's position that Garand is lying, is pretty much based on ignoring what was actually said, and what the situation is.

I guess maybe he is so desparate to have something on Garand, or whatever...

Don't know, don't care. All I know is I was in Winnipeg, Manitoba, and found out for my self. (Even I could have bought a gun there, with the proper permit)

And, the permits don't require any butt kissing or other BS that Andy might try to claim...

:devil:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,262 Posts
Canadian gun laws Are much, much stricter than US ones in general. But look at NYC, Chicago and Madison, WI. You can't own a handgun there either. I have had no problem's bringing rifles and shotguns into Canada. Years ago, you jusr declared them, the Immigration Officers took a quick look, and you were on your way. Now you need to contact the Canadian Tourist Ministry and they will send you an importation form along with a list of forbidden firearms, restricted firearms, and acceptable ones with no further paperwork. The fee is $50.00 U.S. It's good for three firearms You fill out the form (DON'T Sign it) and bring with you when you enter Canada. The Immigration Officer will have you sign it in his precense. I took no chances and brought a SMLE .303 and a Yugolslavian Mauser instead of any thing semi-auto. The officer witnessed my signature, then measured the barrels on the rifles. Why this was done I don't know. But I was a visitor and kept my mouth shut. Speaking to another Officer later I was told I could have brought an SKS with no further hassle, but pistols and detachable magazine rifles were either forbidden or strictly regulated. He told me that he, himself had never fired a pistol, or for that matter even held one before he was sworn in. He didn't know a private citizen that owned a handgun or semi-automatic military type rifle. When I answered his questions about possession in the U.S., I don't think he quite believed me. This was the Province of Ontario. I don't know if laws are different in different Provinces.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,760 Posts
Please quote where I lied? I make no bones about Canadian Gun laws, thank gawd though I don't live in England or Australia! I shot with Murray Gardner at Burke mountain range in British Columbia during a number of matches in the late '80's. http://www.mdgardner.com/extreme-pistol.htm At one time he was Canada's #1 IPSC shooter at one time for 6-8 years. And he never let you forget it either!

Yes we has strict gun laws, http://www.cfc-ccaf.gc.ca/en/owners_users/guide/default.asp And yes I am grandfathered in a number of the firearms I own. Currently 10 provinces out of 12 refuse to enforce the laws. The sitting government won't charge anyone under the Act, as they are scared of a constitutional challenge. Yes erika/gunkid, we have a constitution. One good thing though, we have only 1 gun law from coast to coast, only the federal government can make them. And yes, I have all my firearms in my home. Some idiot, urban politician every couple of years keeps bringing up this stupid idea of locking firearms up on a range. Generally someone will either hit them on the head with a 2x4 or buy them a plane ticket so they can see that our land mass is the second biggest in the world.

I find it amazing that you couldn't remember murray's last name yet you can remember when Raul Walters blew a popcorn fart in 1978. Selective memory? Maybe you can remember erika/gunkid, who won the 1977 match? What gun did he use? Who came second? So how did you shoot in the Nationals in 1979, 1980? 1981? 1982? 1983? 1984? 1985? 1986? 1998? Well tell the rest of the story about your IPSC career!

As for some of the toys I have, erika/gunkid, I''ll post some of my pics, you post some of yours
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,815 Posts
Well TARD, the ball is in your court, how about it.

And how about meeting me in Pagosa Springs, and I will videotape your pistolero abilities. That way you can prove to everybdy how good you REALLY are.

That way MELVIN, you will show every body how badly we have been treating you, the third prince of pistoleers (lower case). The first Prince of Pistoleers (Upper case) was "wild" Bill Hickok. The second Prince of Pistoleers (Upper case) was John Wesley Hardin.

Well how about it MELVIN, do you want to have a go at it, in Pagosa Springs?

You and I and two witnesses. One witness of your choosing,and one of my choosing. That way Melvin, with everything one tape nobody can say anything about your superior pistolcraft. How about it MELVIN?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,944 Posts
Yeah, Canada has some screwed up gun laws, by American standards, but gun laws come and go. Quite frankly, you don't need to pack heat in most areas of Canada like you do in the urbanized places of America. In most urbanized places of America, you can't pack heat also.

While prepping for some possible long-term international travel, I've read a lot of gun laws. It's actually easier to own a firearm in Canada than it is in the US capital in Washington DC, San Francisco, or NYC. There are also ways for Americans to easily take guns into and out of Canada.

Canadian gun laws aren't really that much different than California gun laws and everyone I know in California has several firearms and they shoot a lot. Garand seems to be quite well armed and I bet he spends quite a bit of time at the range and in the woods with firearms.

Yeah, the laws suck, for now, but when you have a lot else on the line, sometimes it's tactically more prudent to comply with a law and adapt your tactics than to constantly risk apprehension and imprisonment.

In Canada, the mag limit for rifles is 10 rounds for a bolt action centerfire, 5 rounds for a semi-auto centerfire, and unlimited for a rimfire. You can have 20 and 30 round mags, they just have to have a block in them. Come SHTF, or even when you're just out in the boonies, just remove the block or swap followers.

Again, you have to look at the situation as a whole. In Canada you have no teeming hordes like in the USA, it's a huge country without a lot of people. What you need there is a fishing pole, a hunting rifle, and a good knife that you can skin game with.

Guns are a tool, not a religion. One's value of self-worth should never depend upon having a particular model of weapon in their hands.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,279 Posts
Gunkid, I really would like to see a videotape of your gunhandling abilities. I'm sure that I would be in awe of your firearms prowness. Of course I know that you are worried about being identified so I suggest that you wear a John Kerry mask. That way no one would know it was you and you could legitimately call yourself 'The Masked Gunman'.

RIKA
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,890 Posts
Hey Garand, how is it for someone moving up there?

Let's say I heard enough of Mrostov's going on about hiding out on a fjord, and wanted to buy a spot of fjord-front property.

Can people coming in be grandfathered-in? I.E. could I bring my FALs, since I had them when I came in? Or would I have to mail them to myself one piece at a time?

How much is a remote piece of fjord-front property going for nowadays? Or maybe Sascachewan (SP?). That be cool just to say I lived in Sascachewan (SP?).
Figure I might as well look into my options before Hitlery runs in 4 years, guaranteed if she runs, these idiots will vote her in.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,760 Posts
Forget the FN, unfortunately. Absolutely no problem with the M1A though or the M1 Garand. Yes, semi auto rifles have to be blocked to 5 rds, except for the Garand. So far this year (2004) I have spent 62 days on the range and shot at least 7 matches. I just checked my annual range book. So erika/gunkid how much range time have you got this year? We would love to hear about how many matches that you shot this year?

Maybe you can remember erika/gunkid, who won the 1977 World Shoot? What gun did he use? Who came second? Supposedly you came 19th? So how did you shoot in the Nationals in 1979, 1980? 1981? 1982? 1983? 1984? 1985? 1986? 1998? Well tell the rest of the story about your IPSC career!

As for magazines being blocked, I have yet to see a converted one that can't be reconverted in 2 minutes or less. The law gives a brief outline of how to do it and what is to be done, but it doesn't go into specific detail. As for my mag mofifications, see attached;
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,760 Posts
On the AR 30 rd mags, I found flat steel to be very easy to work with instead of aluminum. Just ensure when your measuring for length of rod, place magazine in rifle, with 5 dummy rds in and a piece of duct tape holding spring in. Then fit the rod for distance. With the 20 rd AR mags I used 1/4" steel weld rod and pop rivited it into place on the back inside channel of the mag body. The pop rivits were positioned so they are below the mag well. I shoot with my lawyer and he assures me the if ever called into court, I have done everything that I could to comply with the law. In 3 gun competition, up here less people spray and pray. It makes matches more interesting.

British Columbia is a beautiful province, as is Alberta. Alberta has the best financial situation of all the provinces. Alberta is the type of province that Texas wishes it could be, oil wise! Also per capita there are more firearms in Alberta than any other. Saskastewan's greatest export, is people! If you like bald ass prairie, there you are!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,760 Posts
When checking for length on the AR mags, ensure when the magazine is fitted that the action is forward.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,805 Posts
Come on John. Take Stillwater up on his generous offer. We will all be abashed when we see your amazing pistol skills on tape. IF . of course your skills are real you cannot loose. Uf you are worried about your parole officer you cab wear a mask .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,648 Posts
Hey GunKid, no travel waiver involved. You can shut a lot of people up by accepting Bill's (Stillwater) offer.

Why not accept?

how about it?

:devil:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,890 Posts
Garand, thanks for the replies.

So I guess I'd have to stick to my Mosins, Enfields, and still have to pick up that Garand to go with the 200 clips I have. . .

What about handguns? Can I keep them? C'mon, I gotta have my Magnums!

So wherre would be the best place to buy a spot of land away from a lot of people (a good ways north would be best), that has good hunting, fishing, not a lot of people, where a guy can kinda just disappear?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,760 Posts
US Army FM 3-06.11

b. Weapon Penetration. The penetration that can be achieved with a 5.56-mm round depends on the range to the target and the type of material being fired against. The M16A2, M4, and M249 achieve greater penetration than the older M16A1, but only at longer ranges. At close range, the weapons perform the same. Single 5.56-mm rounds are not effective against structural materials (as opposed to partitions) when fired at close range—the closer the range, the less the penetration.

(1) 5.56 mm Maximum Penetration. For the 5.56-mm round, maximum penetration occurs at 200 meters. At ranges less then 25 meters, penetration is greatly reduced. At 10 meters, penetration by the M16 round is poor due to the tremendous stress placed on this high-speed round, which causes it to yaw upon striking a target. Stress causes the projectile to break up, and the resulting fragments are often too small to penetrate.

(2) Reduced Penetration. Even with reduced penetration at short ranges, interior walls made of thin wood paneling, Sheetrock, or plaster are no protection against 5.56-mm ball ammunition rounds. Common office furniture, such as desks and chairs, cannot stop these rounds, but a layer of books 18 to 24 inches thick can.

(3) Wood and Cinder Blocks. Wooden frame buildings and single cinder block walls offer little protection from 5.56-mm rounds. When clearing such structures, soldiers must ensure friendly casualties do not result from rounds passing through walls, floors, or ceilings.

(4) Armor-Piercing Rounds. Armor-piercing rounds are slightly more effective than ball ammunition in penetrating urban targets at all ranges. They are more likely to ricochet than ball ammunition when the target presents a high degree of obliquity.

c. Protection. The following common barriers in urban areas stop a 5.56-mm round fired at less than 50 meters:

One thickness of well-packed sandbags.

A 2-inch concrete wall (nonreinforced).

A 55-gallon drum filled with water or sand.

A small ammunition can filled with sand.

A cinder block filled with sand (block will probably shatter).

A plate glass windowpane at a 45-degree angle (glass fragments may be thrown behind the glass).

A brick veneer.

A car body (5.56-mm rounds penetrate but may not always exit).

d. Wall Penetration. Although most structural materials repel single 5.56-mm rounds, continued and concentrated firing can breach some typical urban structures (see Table 7-2).

(1) Breaching Masonry Walls. The best method for breaching a masonry wall is by firing short bursts (three to five rounds) in a U-shaped pattern. The distance from the gunner to the wall should be minimized for best results—ranges as close as 25 meters are relatively safe from ricochet. Ballistic eye protection, protective vest, and helmet should be worn.

(2) Ball and Armor-Piercing Ammunition. Ball ammunition and armor-piercing rounds produce almost the same results, but armor-piercing rounds are more likely to fly back at the shooter. The 5.56-mm round can be used to create either a loophole (about 7 inches in diameter) or a breach hole (large enough for a man to enter). When used against reinforced concrete, 5.56-mm rounds cannot cut the reinforcing bars.

TYPE
PENETRATION
ROUNDS
(REQUIRED)

8-inch reinforced concrete Initial
Loophole 35
250

14-inch triple brick Initial
Loophole 90
160

12-inch cinder block with single-brick veneer Loophole
Breach hole 60
250

9-inch double brick Initial
Loophole 70
120

16-inch tree trunk or log wall Initial* 1 to 3

12-inch cinder block (filled with sand) Loophole 35

24-inch double sandbag wall Initial* 220

3/8-inch mild steel door Initial* 1

*Penetration only, no loophole.


Table 7-2. Structure penetration capabilities of the 5.56-mm round against typical urban targets (range 25 to 100 meters).

7-3. MEDIUM AND HEAVY MACHINE GUNS (7.62-MM AND CALIBER .50)

In the urban environment, the Browning caliber .50 machine gun and the 7.62-mm M60 and M240B machine guns provide high-volume, long-range, automatic fires for the suppression or destruction of targets. They provide final protective fire along fixed lines and can be used to penetrate light structures—the caliber .50 machine gun is most effective in this role. Tracers from both machine guns are likely to start fires.

a. Employment. The primary consideration that impacts the employment of machine guns within urban areas is the limited availability of long-range fields of fire. Although machine guns should be emplaced at the lowest terrain level possible, grazing fire at ground level is often obstructed by rubble.

(1) M2, Caliber .50 Machine Gun. The caliber .50 machine gun is often employed on its vehicular mount during both offensive and defensive operations. If necessary, it can be mounted on the M3 tripod for use in the ground role or in the upper levels of buildings. When mounted on a tripod, the caliber .50 machine gun can be used as an accurate, long-range weapon and can supplement sniper fires.

(2) M60/M240 Machine Guns. Medium machine guns are cumbersome, making them difficult to use inside while clearing a building. They are useful outside to suppress and isolate enemy defenders. If the gunner is unable to engage targets from the prone position, he can fire the M240B and the M60 from either the shoulder or the hip to provide a high volume of assault and suppressive fires. The use of the long sling to support the weapon and ammunition is preferred.

(3) Comparison. Medium machine guns are less effective against masonry targets than caliber .50 machine guns because of their reduced penetration power. The gun's availability and its lighter weight make it well suited to augment heavy machine gun fire. They can be used in areas where the caliber .50 machine guns cannot be positioned, or they can be used as a substitute when heavy machine guns are not available. The M60/M240B machine gun can be employed on its tripod to deliver accurate fire along fixed lines and then can quickly be converted to bipod fire to cover alternate fields of fire.

b. Weapon Penetration. The ability of the 7.62-mm and caliber .50 rounds to penetrate is also affected by the range to the target and type of material fired against. The 7.62-mm round is affected less by close ranges than the 5.56-mm; the caliber .50 rounds penetration is reduced least of all.

(1) At 50 meters, the 7.62-mm ball round cannot reliably penetrate a single layer of well-packed sandbags. It can penetrate a single sandbag layer at 200 meters, but not a double layer. The armor-piercing round does only slightly better against sandbags. It cannot penetrate a double layer but can penetrate up to 10 inches at 600 meters.

(2) The penetration of the 7.62-mm round is best at 600 meters. Most urban targets are closer. The longest effective range is usually 200 meters or less. Table 7-3 explains the penetration capabilities of a single 7.62-mm (ball) round at closer ranges.

RANGE
(meters)
PENETRATION
(inches)

PINE BOARD
DRY LOOSE SAND
CINDER BLOCK
CONCRETE

25
13
5
8
2

100
18
4.5
10
2

200
41
7
8
2


Table 7-3. Penetration capabilities of a single7.62-mm (ball) round.

(3) The caliber .50 round is also optimized for penetration at long ranges (about 800 meters). For hard targets, obliquity and range affect caliber .50 penetration. Both armor-piercing and ball ammunition penetrate 14 inches of sand or 28 inches of packed earth at 200 meters, if the rounds impact perpendicular to the flat face of the target. Table 7-4 explains the effect of a 25-degree obliquity on a caliber .50 penetration.

THICKNESS
(feet)
100 METER
(rounds)
200 METERS
(rounds)

2
300
1,200

3
450
1,800

4
600
2,400


Table 7-4. Number of rounds needed to penetrate a reinforced concrete wall at a 25-degree obliquity.

c. Protection. Barriers that offer protection against 5.56-mm rounds are also effective against 7.62-mm rounds with some exceptions. The 7.62-mm round can penetrate a windowpane at a 45-degree obliquity, a hollow cinder block, or both sides of a car body. It can also easily penetrate wooden frame buildings. The caliber .50 round can penetrate all the commonly found urban barriers except a sand-filled 55-gallon drum.

d. Wall Penetration. Continued and concentrated machine gun fire can breach most typical urban walls. Such fire cannot breach thick reinforced concrete structures or dense natural stone walls. Internal walls, partitions, plaster, floors, ceilings, common office furniture, home appliances, and bedding can be easily penetrated by both 7.62-mm and caliber .50 rounds (Tables 7-5 and 7-6).

TYPE THICKNESS
(inches)
HOLE DIAMETER (inches)
ROUNDS REQUIRED

Reinforced concrete 8
7
100

Triple brick wall 14
7
170

Concrete block with single brick veneer 12
6 and 24
30 and 200

Cinder block (filled) 12
*
18

Double brick wall 9
*
45

Double sandbag wall 24
*
110

Log wall 16
*
1

Mild steel door 3/8
*
1

* Penetration only, no loophole.


Table 7-5. Structure penetrating capabilities of 7.62-mm round (NATO ball) against typical urban targets (range 25 meters).

TYPE THICKNESS
(inches)
HOLE DIAMETER (inches)
ROUNDS REQUIRED

Reinforced concrete 10

18
12

24

7
50

100

140

Triple brick wall 12
8

26
15

50

Concrete block with single brick veneer 12
10

33
25

45

Armor plate 1
*
1

Double sandbag wall 24
*
5

Log wall 16
*
1

* Penetration only, no loophole.


Table 7-6. Structure penetrating capabilities of caliber .50 ball against typical urban targets (range 35 meters).

(1) The medium machine gun can be difficult to hold steady enough to repeatedly hit the same point on a wall. The dust created by the bullet strikes also makes precise aiming difficult. Firing from a tripod is usually more effective than without, especially if sandbags are used to steady the weapon. Short bursts of three to five rounds fired in a U-type pattern are best.

(2) Breaching a brick veneer presents a special problem for the medium machine gun. Rounds penetrate the cinder block but leave a net-like structure of unbroken block. Excessive ammunition is required to destroy a net since most rounds only pass through a previously eroded hole. One or two minutes work with an E-tool, crowbar, or axe can remove this web and allow entry through the breach hole.

(3) The caliber .50 machine gun can be fired accurately from the tripod using the single-shot mode. This is the most efficient method for producing a loophole. Automatic fire in three- to five-round bursts, in a U-type pattern, is more effective in producing a breach.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
160 Posts
This must be one of them there "new thread starts"

Excpet it's two frikkin years old.

posted on 11-02-2002


The TRUTH about pistols in Canada can
be read over at Talk Shooter's.com. Handguns, 10-31, BruceB, on Chonological Page. My pc, especially email, is screwing up, but I'll soon paste that post here, so all can SEE just how big a LIAR Garand is on that subject, (just like he is about his claimed "long range" bs.)
You'd think that in two years he could have actually taken the time to look something up.
 
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
Top