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or your total gear wt is WAY too much. That's IF you know how to make another 30 lbs of other gear suffice, that is. Very few do, of course. With 4 lbs of back pack, 6 lbs of water, several pounds each of tools, shelter gear, extra clothing, etc, it leaves VERY little space or carryability for all the little things that everyone THINKS that they just HAVE to have. Funny, the Indians had almost none of that stuff, and they made it ok.

Bill Moreland had 11 lbs of other surival gear, for 13 years in the Idaho wilds. He never used a cabin, or an axe. The first 11 years, he had no gun, either. Snow gets 10 ft deep in Idaho, and it's cold as a witche's tit for half the year, then the bugs eat you alive for most of the rest of the year. THIRTEEN years of that, no tent, no sleeping bag, no water filter, no medical gear.
 

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That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. Unfortunately, you are not a skilled woodsman, so we recommend that you take more with you. Also unfortunately, you can't guarantee that everybody that you shoot in the back will have the kit that will enable you to survive. There will be no prizes for the one that survives with the least kit, if the balloon ever goes up. But there will be a shallow grave for the one that fails to plan properly. So now that we are talking kit again, please post a DETAILED kit list of what you have packed and ready to go AT THIS MOMENT!
 

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Wrong, Moreland had a sleeping bag.

That bag, like much of the rest that lept him alive, was stolen from cabins and forestry outposts. He also lost most of his teeth too. That and he just in general lived like an animal. Moreland lived like that bacause he had mental problems.

As for water, it's 8lbs/gal so plan on carrying more than your 6lbs in dry country.
 

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andy said:
Funny, the Indians had almost none of that stuff, and they made it ok.
For cryin' out loud, the Indians' shelter weighed more than that.

Stop making up numbers and actually try it yourself.
 

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So list your bugout kit that you have packed AT THIS MOMENT! Then we can make some constructive critism on it. I posted mine, a few months back and got some very positive feedback and actually added a couple of items that I hadn't thought of.
 

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andy said:
Funny, the Indians had almost none of that stuff, and they made it ok.
The Indians traveled in groups, had lots of heavy blankets, either had semi-permanent wigwams or mobile tipis, had horses to carry their stuff, and avoided the areas that Moreland traveled. They also had an extremely high mortality rate and they would have killed (literally) for the gear your average backpacker carries. They also got their asses kicked by those who were better equipped and organized.
 

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Still waiting for that kit list!
 

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Andy likes to ignore historical facts and make stuff up to prove his points.

Anyone want to venture a guess as to the wt of a teepee?

There's an awful large surface area comprised of animal hides. Not to mention the hides used as blankets and bedding. Throw a few other bits of gear into the mix, and we're talking about a fair amount of wt.

:devil:
 

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Add into that the fact that they didn't have horses until Europeans brought them over. In fact, I believe there was quite a horse trade going on from south to north america before Europeans came to north america and started trading from there.
 
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