[GBullet]

Recently there was some discussion of handgun (HG) and rifle bullets impacting at the same velocity. HG bullets can be described as short, fat and blunt, while rifle bullets are usually long, slender and pointy.

Rifle and HG bullets do NOT necessarily behave the same way when they impact at the same velocity.

The drag of the bullets passing through tissue will be different due to the way tissue flows around the bullets. Also, the rifle bullet's drag will be farther forward of it's center of gravity, making it want to yaw more than the HG bullet.

This raises the question of kinetic energy. What if the rifle and HG bullets have the same weight and velocity? Their kinetic energies will be the same but will they have the same effectiveness? No, they will probably differ. Kinetic energy is like money...what you get depends on how you use it.

 

[brass hammer]

i copy the gist

of your post, friend , i have posted the merits of .32cal xtp bullets sized to .30 cal. carbine

heres what works for me!
cases,r-p
bullet type,jhp-xtp
bullet weight,100gr.
powder type, aa#9
powder charge, 13.5
rem.sr primer
1.544" seating depth
fps,2000[velocity may vary by 20']


I can run it through the chrony again, but why?

this load friends, has brought back from the dead, a 63 year old war horse,
that shouldn't just be sneezed at any more.


thanks.



my bad, i'm pushin' pistol ball about twice of what it's designed for, i skipped the velocites being equal part[sorry]
thanks. :headbang:

 

[andy]

At the same impact velocity, the hg bullet should expand MORE, not less, because the rifle bullet's jacket is intended for such velocities, and is naturally either thicker or tougher than the jhp pistol jacket is, since the latter was intended for sub 1600 fps expansion. Also, the handgun bullets I am talking about have MORE frontal area, LARGER diameter hollowpoint cavities, than the .30 cal rifle bullets whose velocities I am talking -about. the 9mm has nearly double the frontal area of the .30 cal, for instance. the .45 has FOUR TIMES the frontal area of a .223 bullet.

I didn't SAY that the hg bullet behaves the SAME as a similar wt and velocity rifle bullet. I said that the hangun bullet is BETTER, for stopping men. Yawing of the bullet is a concern only for the fools who "think" ball type bullets are worth having for anything but practice.

 

[GBullet]

At the same impact velocity, the hg bullet should expand MORE, not less, because the rifle bullet's jacket is intended for such velocities, and is naturally either thicker or tougher than the jhp pistol jacket is, since the latter was intended for sub 1600 fps expansion.

True. Consider the high likelyhood that the rifle bullet may yaw, especially if it does not expand.

Also, the handgun bullets I am talking about have MORE frontal area, LARGER diameter hollowpoint cavities, than the .30 cal rifle bullets whose velocities I am talking -about. the 9mm has nearly double the frontal area of the .30 cal, for instance. the .45 has FOUR TIMES the frontal area of a .223 bullet.

True...if the rifle bullet stayed pointed forward, but it probably will not.

If the rifle bullet yaws, the area presented to the tissue will increase. Additionally, the yawed bullet will have a "blunter" shape. A sideways rifle bullet can have more than thirty times the drag of a nose-first bullet. At high velocities, the forces on a sideways rifle bullet may cause it to fragment or snap-in-two.

I didn't SAY that the hg bullet behaves the SAME as a similar wt and velocity rifle bullet. I said that the hangun bullet is BETTER, for stopping men. Yawing of the bullet is a concern only for the fools who "think" ball type bullets are worth having for anything but practice.

Ball ammo may be more reliable than HP's in some auto's. Besides, FMJ's are not useless. In large caliber handguns FMJ stops assailants with one shot about half to two thirds of the time.

 

[andy]

so? 1 failure in 2-3 shootings COMFORTS you? I'd MUCH rather have the 1 failure in 20-50 shootings of a really good hg load, thanks. I could EASILY have to shoot two men, FIRST time. One failure in 2 shootings means I then get shot.

IF ball rifle bullet tumbles, is a BIG if. Most rifle hits are random accidents, on MOVING, cover using, head on prone, type targets. So, MOST of the hits are not ones in which the bullet penetrates anything LIKE the 7-8" of flesh that the .30 cal bullets need do start yawing. Many will not even be the 4-5" of flesh that 223 ball (SUPPOSEDLY) needs to start yawing. A good rifle sp will expand INSTANTLY. Let it "just" be 1" deep, "crease' on your buttocks, and SEE if you can still WALK, and if that wound is easy to stop the bleeding. If your pc WONT reliably feed better bullet shapes, better <font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font>CAN it for defensive use.