[andy]

stage of Service Rifle all the time, they do, and HAVE done so, for about 10 years now. The Advanced Marskmanship Unit abandoned the M14 and 308 in favor of the M16 and 223, for match shooting, when a WOMAN Marine kicked everyone's ass at the Nationals, using an M16, back in 98, I think it was. The better 80 gr vld loads, with 24" barrels, still have 500+ ft lbs left at 600 yds. In other words, a 223 user, if he knows what's up, CAN hit harder at 700 yds than a .45 ball rd hits at 7 ft(ie, 400 ft lbs). Just because you are stupid, and only know about 55 gr, plain based softpoints, in 20" barrels, doesn't mean that better performance cant be had. It just means that you are ignorant, that's all.

 

[41mag]

Hmmmmmmmmmm.

 

[Aslan]

Which, of course, is why all those M14's are in play over in Iraq and Afghanistan, when they COULD have super-duper .223's in the designated marksman role.

Yawn.

:devil:

 

[Hard Ball]

They are just ignorant soldiers who want real weapons that work Askan, not clever keyboard commandos.

 

[Magnum88C]

Of course no mention is made of real hitting power. .223 rifles can shoot real accurately, but don't deliver much on target out there. Oh it's enough to make a .22 hole in paper, but that's no big deal.
But then he admits this by having to compare the power of a rifle with one of his magic loads to a pistol. . .BTW, turning your AR into a single shot to fire VLDs is fine on the range, but it combat it's flat stupid.

 

[Dorobuta]

but they aren't your shorty CAR, are they? So your point is, well, mystifyingly dumb.

 

[BigEd]

In his imaginary world of the Melvinverse maybe his POS/CAR has a variable length Pinocchio style barrel?😛

 

[John in AR]

HBAR'S group 6", 600 yds, WIN 600 yd stage of Service Rifle all the time, they do, and HAVE done so, for about 10 years now. The Advanced Marskmanship Unit abandoned the M14 and 308 in favor of the M16 and 223, for match shooting, when a WOMAN Marine kicked everyone's ass at the Nationals, using an M16, back in 98, I think it was. The better 80 gr vld loads, with 24" barrels, still have 500+ ft lbs left at 600 yds. In other words, a 223 user, if he knows what's up, CAN hit harder at 700 yds than a .45 ball rd hits at 7 ft(ie, 400 ft lbs). Just because you are stupid, and only know about 55 gr, plain based softpoints, in 20" barrels, doesn't mean that better performance cant be had. It just means that you are ignorant, that's all.

So using a gun type that that you don't recommend, with a load that you don't recommend, with a barrel length that's 240% of what you recommend, is an example of why your recommendation is rational. Got it; makes perfect sense now that you explain it like that.

 

[Dorobuta]

His fear / hatred for anything bigger than .223 has him posting bizarre arguments.

many of his posts are the logical equivalent of: “The M1 is the best main battle tank in the world, therefore you must drive a VW micro bus.”

he can’t make a semi-rational argument for his crippled CAR.

in fact, from this post, the 24” is better than his shorty, so that implies that a 16” M4 is also better than his shorty.

having the M4 (clone), I’d go with it before a shorty like he advocates. It’s a better choice, easy to handle, suppresses well. Has better reach and accuracy.

If forced to go with a shorty, I’d go with my 300 blackout - better ballistics, better suppression, and better accuracy than his shorty.

its mind bogglingly dumb, the mental gymnastics he goes through.

 

[John in AR]

...having the M4 (clone), I’d go with it before a shorty like he advocates. It’s a better choice, easy to handle, suppresses well. Has better reach and accuracy...

...If forced to go with a shorty, I’d go with my 300 blackout...

Same here on both counts. I really like the 223/5.56, but my main gun has a 16" pencil-weight barrel, with lightened rail and 223 Wylde chamber to allow use of 5.56 while at the same time helping with accuracy when using 223 ammo, and mid-length gas system to smooth out the cycling compared to the typical carbine-length gas setup. Only thing I'd change about it would be to make it a slower twist rate; it has a 1:8 and for defensive use I'd actually rather have it down at 1:10 or 1:12 or so, to take more advantage of M193 stuff, but overall I'm very happy with it.

On the blackout, agree again. My blackout pistol is 9" or maybe 8.5", and after I enlarged the gas port & added a click-adjustable gas block from Superlative Arms, it runs subs and supers, suppressed or unsuppressed. With supers and suppressor, it's somewhat over-gassed, but I figure that's just the price for reliability with subs.

Honestly, either one imo is fine for defensive purposes. The blackout pistol has the advantage of compactness, and the 223 carbine has the advantage of usually cheaper & more widely-available ammo. But I'd be completely comfortable with either.

 

[BigEd]

I've got one 16" light weight barrel Carbine set up with a RRA NM trigger, free float tube, BUIS and a Leupold MK AR 1.5-4x with illuminated center dot.

I call it my traveling rifle as I originally assembled it pre-covid 19 to carry with me while traveling to scout out areas for a potential move. Particularly out west.

Never used it for that much at all and ended up carrying one of the pistol varieties instead. Well those maybe either SBR'ed or converted to Carbines via pending unconstitutional actions by the usurper in Chief and his mis-adminstration.🙄