[DaRkWoLf]

Sometimes I read things in a whacky tone. I disclaimed that without exactly holding you to it. I take no issue with you, and yes you seem likable.

As stated in post 29, I do have empirical results, and I'm not sure what counts more than dumping loads of bullets downrange. Without overdisclosing, each barrel was made on machinery which is essentially inaccessible and the specs were outright stupid; for our purposes the material and the ammunition were really the only significant non ambient variables.

I also have thousands of bullets from a personal gun that burned through two 17-4 barrels of Lothar Walther manufacture, which is insignificant compared to what we evaluated in terms of science.

It is possible that no one has some of what we've found outside of some obscure government tests (some of which ironically took place some time ago... without rifled barrels and slightly different alloys. 17-4 was not one of those tested in that series either). I was really spoiled with some excellent connections and capital to throw into the whole thing.

We were also not looking for 6,000, or even 15,000 consistent round counts. Much, much more than that. Consistency was also defined quite specifically. All of this and more within some outrageous firing schedules as well.

I've seen some regular manufacturers' 416R barrels with over 30,000 logged rounds that shoot excellent but that’s not a norm, and it's even more exotic with cartridges where one seriously needs some extra life like some of the 6.5 hotrods and .338 Lapua or 300 Win.

Also as I've repeatedly said, 17-4 is amazing until near inexplicably it becomes not so. The 17-4 moly combination is something we did not try and having not tested that in particular I can't decisively say anything but as I've mentioned perhaps there is a beneficial symbiosis. As I’ve said, I have limited and often tertiary knowledge with moly as a bullet coating; I’ve seen the effects of moly on chambers however but I admit I don’t know all of the details.

If one can get the data for different environments, and truly know what their kit is doing, the shooter as a system is far more effective and efficient.

I'm sure Tubb has shot enough to have a feeling for the consistency of his kit, in its explicit incarnation. He's also a good shooter and can perform moly or not.

At this point, I'm not keen on presenting the issue further. I am very much aware of the mechanics involved in this affair within the context of what I tried to do in conjunction with my recreational shooting activities. I don't think some words on the errornet will sway your opinion on the matter but I would encourage you to keep an open mind. I have no personal problem with you either way.

On a different topic, why can’t the Swiss rifles (K31s?) you shoot be rebarreled? Can’t someone make a group buy on them and have someone spin down blanks for them appropriately? Most mid and premium barrel houses do OEM/volume solutions starting at 10 units even in outright custom configurations.

 

[1911sr]

Not easily Wolfy. Anything part of a Swiss rifle, like a stock is now considered as a complete rifle to the exporters. You know what that means. All of the export, import, and lots of other pointless paperwok costing lots of dollars are involved. The barrels have been on these rifles since the 30's and 40's and our own shop gunsmith was not able to remove a barrel because it requires a specialized jig, tools and heat, but in the right place and the right amount. Swiss armourers have all of it documented and unless you have everything involved, that barrel isn't going to move. Lots of American gunsmiths have found this out. How do I know? Because the whole history of trying, failure very limited success and frustration are scattered on our forum and have been for years.
Just the cost of the receiver jig and tool for such a specialized rifle is enough to make most all gunsmiths pass on doing the job. A group buy wouldn't make any difference. The chances of those guys to finding a gunsmith willing to take all that on are not very good.
The zfk55 rifles? Forget it. You simply won't get one for that rare rifle and we have two of them.

I'm not as high tech as you are, but I do remember a couple of things my Dad told my brother and me a long time ago. First, It it doesn't sound reasonable and rational, it probably isn't. Second, If it's within your capabilities, never take anyone's word for something you can prove or disprove yourself with a practical track record.

Our own track record says you're wrong about Moly, and most certainly we know that hBN is in the same category but just cleaner. Tracking two rifles' barrel wear over the 3,000 round mark tells the truth if the barrels are identical. We have a Hawkeye Borescope and throat and muzzle guages for 30, 7.5 Swiss and .223 calibers. The guages might have some very minor leeway, but you can't fool a Hawkeye, and we record the visuals.
17-4 Electro Polished doesn't allow any barrel coating penetration whatsoever.
Anyway, thanks for your response Wolfy.

 

[DaRkWoLf]

Your dad's advice is spot on, and everyone would do well to follow it.

Re: Swiss rifles, That sounds absolutely horrid. I'm surprised a Swiss smith hasn't opened some sort of business for such here though. Lame :/

 

[1911sr]

Wolfy, we had discussed it cuz we do have the rather large Swiss Products machine shop, but it would involve working with end users and none of us want to handle that end of it. We've been factory to distributors only for the full 14 years that Dad has been in that business and he's too old to want to do anything retail. Sp was actually supposed to be a retirement business for his partner and him, but it turned into something larger than either Dad or Jack expected.
Have you been to our website? www.swissproductsllc.com

Bye!

1911sr