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There is a brief mention of the 4.6x30mm ammo in another thread here, so that got me interested.....


MP-7 with extended stock and foregrip



MP-7 with folded stock and foregrip - note that it only slightly bigger than any full-size military pistol


Caliber: 4.6mm proprietary (4.6x30mm)
Weight: 1.5 kg empty
Length (stock closed/open): 340 / 540 mm
Barrel length: 180 mm
Rate of fire: 950 rounds per minute
Magazine capacity: 20 or 40 rounds
Effective range: 200 meters


The HK MP-7 Personal Defence Weapon (PDW) is a member of a brand new class of small arms, called Personal Defence Weapons. The PDWs are intended, as name implies, to be a defensive sidearms for second-line troops, vehicle crews and other military personnel who normally not issued with assault rifles. Previously, these troops were issued with pistols or submachine guns, but proliferation of body armour in recent years made those guns ineffective. The first firearm, intended as PDW and offered in that class was belgian-made P-90 by FN, and it had special low-impulse, high-velocity ammunition, capable of penetration of current military body armours and helmets at ranges of 100 meters and beyond, while being much smaller and lighter, than assult rifle. The MP-7, originally known simply as H&K PDW, is another entry in the PDW class, and direct competitor to P-90.

The MP-7, first announced in 2000, entered production in 2001 and, according to some sources, is adopted by some German special units, such as KSK, and also offered for export sales and for NATO-trials as an another could-be NATO PDW (the only other competitor is FN P-90).

The MP-7 layouted as a compact submachine gun, with magazine being inserted into pistol grip, with folding forward grip and telescoped buttstock, but it designed to fire special, high velocity ammunition, 4.6x30mm, that looks like scaled down rifle round. That ammunition is unique to the MP-7. The receiver, along with the pistol grip, is made from the polymer with steel reinforcements. on the top side of the receiver there is a picatinny-style rail for sight mountings. The action of the MP-7 is somewhat unusual for weapon of such small size, since it is gas operated, rotating bolt design, which stronly resembles the action of the HK G-36 assault rifle, suitably scaled down. The ambidextrous fire mode selector/safety switch allows for semi-auto and full-auto modes. Unlike the P-90, the MP-7 could be fired single-handed, or from thwo hands, either like the pistol or using a front grip. Telescopic buttstock can be extended to give additional stability. With buttstock and front grip collapsed, the MP-7 can be carried like any big pistol, in the special holster, and can be effectively used in the close combat, so this is why it also can be used as offensive weapon by different special units in close quarter battle.

The 4.6x30mm ammunition is loaded with spitzer-pointed, all-steel bullet with brass jacket. Bullet weight is 1.6 gramm (25 grains) and the muzzle velocity is 725 m/s (ca. 2400 fps). Manufacturer claims the 100% penetration of the CRISAT body armour (1.6mm of Titanium plus 20 layers of Kevlar) at the distance of 200 meters.

The MP-7 is an interesting development, ant it yet to be seen, which concept (MP-7 or P-90) will be more suitable for NATO, and which weapon system will be sold better.
 

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Well,it's a bit big for a pistol.I wonder how clunky it would be for a soldier used to carrying a pistol.It's really light weight though.I expect that that would mitigate some of the clunkiness.That cyclic rate is almost double the Ruskie gun in the other thread.
Interesting to see two different takes on similar weapons.

What really catches my eye though,is just how much it looks like a movie prop gun.
If you think of the guns in movies like Blade,Star Wars,Bladerunner,The Fifth Element,& any Alien(s) flick they almost always use oversized,clunky looking "guns".I almost wonder if this is form follows function or life imitating art?

:madeuce:
 

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aint got much power. The 9mm PISTOL will get 40 grs to 2400 fps in a 5" barrel. :) 25 grs at such a speed has a pathetic 320 ft lbs, no expansion of the bullet, very small diamter bullet, etc. Stupid to not have a .22 unit for practice, too.
 

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Except that it defeats ALL body armor, puts out enough rounds to really mess up your day. How much expansion is required if you are hit by 5 or more rounds?

950rpm would be very controllable, be simple to keep on target.

You're always claiming the .22 is all you'll need for your silly ambush tactics.

You can't have it both ways.

:devil:
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I think when push comes to shove, if I would need to shoot someone, I would much rather have too much penetration, then not enough.....

If the round goes through the body, you then have TWO holes leaking vital fluids.
 

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No arguments here;and hey if you can get a twofer(2 dead or down BG's with the same shot) than as a cranky old E-7 once told me,'You done good!".
 

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The Police and security forces worry too much about overpenetration. If a bullet manages to penetrate a person, you have a significant decrease in bullet energy as well as accuracy. The bullet will also lose energy at a much faster rate because of the way the bullet will be flying after exiting the person. It may not be out-and-out tumbling, but it will definately NOT be flying the refined and fluid course it was taking before entering the individual.

It's also exceeding rare for a bullet to travel through one person and cause serious damage to another. Bullets that will do that aren't exactly used in lightweight rifles. The .50 BMG and similar rounds will probably do that. Rich has a .50, he might know.
 

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84 C4 said:
The Police and security forces worry too much about overpenetration. If a bullet manages to penetrate a person, you have a significant decrease in bullet energy as well as accuracy. The bullet will also lose energy at a much faster rate because of the way the bullet will be flying after exiting the person. It may not be out-and-out tumbling, but it will definately NOT be flying the refined and fluid course it was taking before entering the individual.

It's also exceeding rare for a bullet to travel through one person and cause serious damage to another. Bullets that will do that aren't exactly used in lightweight rifles. The .50 BMG and similar rounds will probably do that. Rich has a .50, he might know.

Ok then explain to me why the FBI canned the 10mm in favor of something less powerful? There were some cases of overpenetration and on that fact they changed pistols. Maybe it was an urban legend or maybe it was just bad marksmanship on the part of certain agents. I mean if you shoot someone in the arm with a 10 mm it is going to go through won't it? For that matter won't 22 even do the same? I mean it is not like you are shooting in a very meaty area with a lot of resistance.
 

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bcfos said:
Ok then explain to me why the FBI canned the 10mm in favor of something less powerful? There were some cases of overpenetration and on that fact they changed pistols. Maybe it was an urban legend or maybe it was just bad marksmanship on the part of certain agents. I mean if you shoot someone in the arm with a 10 mm it is going to go through won't it? For that matter won't 22 even do the same? I mean it is not like you are shooting in a very meaty area with a lot of resistance.
Hmm, from what I heard, and it is only a rumor of course, was that the FBI dropped the 10mm because some of the personel could not handle the high recoil of full power loads. What they RFP'd was then a lighter recoiling 10mm round, and it was determined that a shorter casing (the .40 S&W) would fit that bill nicely.
 

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FBI dropped the 10mm because some of the personel could not handle the high recoil of full power loads.
Sounds like why the military dropped the 1911 in favor of the M9. :banghead:
 

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Rich Z said:
Hmm, from what I heard, and it is only a rumor of course, was that the FBI dropped the 10mm because some of the personel could not handle the high recoil of full power loads. What they RFP'd was then a lighter recoiling 10mm round, and it was determined that a shorter casing (the .40 S&W) would fit that bill nicely.


Could be. This would make more since since no data from overpenetration where innocents got hit could be found.
 

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That's the true skinny.Too much recoil for some of the special agents.So they came up w/the 10mm short.Ick.
 
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