[Stillwater]

How far away from "civilization" is far enough to you for a SHTF scenario?

What represents civilization to you -- a large population center, with all of the amenities? Or, a smaller more rural area.

There are some places I had in mind, but some seem, to me at least, like they may be too close to large population (150,000) centers.

1. In the mountains, approx. 50-75 miles as the crow flies from high density (150,000) population center.

2. In the mountains, approx 50-75 miles from a medium density (25,000) population center, but more remote than the first choice, and further away from my home.

3. In the mountains (I see a pattern here), approx 25-30 miles from a low density population center (10,000), but also more rugged than the first (but more paved highways to get there)

4. In a smaller mountain range, 40-50 miles from the major populace center, and probably 20-30 miles ATCF from low density population (10,000) center.

5. To head northwest as far, and as fast, as I can. Trying to find a spot in the mountainous areas.

Should I move now, which would allow time for me to integrate myself into the community?

Do you think I should re-evaluate my plans?

Bill

 

[andy]

depends a lot upon your ability to

remain undetected. I could remain so in between 2 towns, 10,000 people each, 10 miles apart, in wooded hills, indefinitely. A lot depends upon the terrain, and the weather. While snow and cold hurts the enemy's mobility, it also makes YOU leave tracks, and makes you send up smoke signals, visible for many miles, in your effort to keep WARM, melt ice for drinking water, puts you at risk of falling into gullies, thru the ice, and so on. Cant fish worth a hoot thru the ice, growing season is short, many types of plants wont grow there, the animals mostly hibernate or migrate out of there, etc.

I dont worry much about going far, and if I did, I'd use an inflatable raft to go downstream, at night, mostly to just avoid people, but also to travel with little risk or effort, always having access to water, fish, and so on.

 

[RIKA]

In my perfect survival scenario, I would choose either #3 or #4.

3. In the mountains (I see a pattern here), approx 25-30 miles from a low density population center (10,000), but also more rugged than the first (but more paved highways to get there)

4. In a smaller mountain range, 40-50 miles from the major populace center, and probably 20-30 miles ATCF from low density population (10,000) center.

Probably #4. Fate and God's will will dictate where I end up. Wherever it is, I hope that I will make contact with good people of like mind and action.

RIKA

 

[andy]

u guys ever LOOK at an almanac for the

lower 48 states, for a population density map, and then look at a state road-city map. There AINT many places like you want, that aren't PITS, either swamps or desert, or with lousy 4 months that dont freeze ice at night. I've seen snow in the mountains here, wolf creek or Red mountan, in AUGUST, and I'm in SOUTHERN CO. I dont mean in the peaks, I mean on the GROUND, alongside the road, in the "passes". So much for growing much in the way of crops, except in a "greenhouse".

 

[andy]

u can go ONE place, for the first year

after sht, let 99% of the people die off, then move wherever you want to be, basically. Nobody is going to be in much of a position to stop ya, if you know jack squat about how to do it.

 

[Stillwater]

Re: u guys ever LOOK at an almanac for the

lower 48 states, for a population density map, and then look at a state road-city map. There AINT many places like you want, that aren't PITS, either swamps or desert, or with lousy 4 months that dont freeze ice at night. I've seen snow in the mountains here, wolf creek or Red mountan, in AUGUST, and I'm in SOUTHERN CO. I dont mean in the peaks, I mean on the GROUND, alongside the road, in the "passes". So much for growing much in the way of crops, except in a "greenhouse".

Well Melvin, you're making another mistake. How many is that in a row?

You haven't ground altitude into the equasion. You don't understand how to find out about growing seasons in possible areas.

I won't let on where these great places are Melvin, because your sorry butt might try to show up.

I must know of fifty or one hundred spots that qualify. I wasn't spending all of my years in prison, Melvin. I have traveled all over the western United States and have found myself some choice areas.

How do you think Mel Tappan found out about his area? I gave him the tip you Dunderhead.

Oh yes, I forgot -- Mel Tappan is one of those writers you are so jealous of. You know the ones I mean, the ones that have writing talents.

Bill

 

[Stillwater]

In my perfect survival scenario, I would choose either #3 or #4.

3. In the mountains (I see a pattern here), approx 25-30 miles from a low density population center (10,000), but also more rugged than the first (but more paved highways to get there)

4. In a smaller mountain range, 40-50 miles from the major populace center, and probably 20-30 miles ATCF from low density population (10,000) center.

Probably #4. Fate and God's will will dictate where I end up. Wherever it is, I hope that I will make contact with good people of like mind and action.

RIKA

RIKA:
Do you remember the name of the city I mentioned that you might look for work in? Don't mention the name of the city here, I don't want Melvin thinking about the place.

There are more good survival spots within 50 - 75 miles of that city, in all directions, than almost every where else.

Food, water, shelter, concealment, everything you would want to have.

Bill

 

[RIKA]

I remember, Bill. A very choice area. I'm talking to Dad and to Jack. Perhaps things will come together.

RIKA

 

[Rich Z]

Here's a 1990 population density map that might be helpful.

Actually, I'm not too unhappy with where I now live at. Wakulla county in the eastern panhandle of Florida. Right between Tallahassee and the Gulf of Mexico.

Not the best, but certainly not the worst, either.

 

[Stillwater]

The map backs up my hypothesis entirely. In my area, there are from 1 to 19 people per square mile. Just the way I want it.

Where my property is, one person per square mile would be a lot.

Bill

 

[Magnum88C]

Where I am now is pretty well populated, although I am 35 miles from a minor population center and about 50 from a major one, right in the middle of woods andd farms.

Where I'm planning on moving (and already have the property) in in one of the 1-19 zones, and IS in the mountains at about 5900 feet ASL, very close to a fast moving river.

 

[Half elf]

My property is osuth of the metro atlanta area, but my bugout location is the family farm in MO. where the population is very low. I could not hold my house single-handed, but can get my tribe up to my family area, and then I dont have to be on point all the time.

 

[Half elf]

My property is south of the metro Atlanta area, but my bugout location is the family farm in MO. where the population is very low. I could not hold my house single-handed, but can get my tribe up to my family area, and then I dont have to be on point all the time. The major population center is 35mls away.and is only 350people.

 

[andy]

The good places are SO rare,andso easily reached, by so many, and are KNOWN about, by so many, that they might well be as crowded as is any ghetto, if shtf. I live 5 miles from some of the best elk hunting in the world. I literally have to WORRY about hitting deer,at dusk. I can have snow in the summer,or have non-freezing nights in the winter, by walking 20 miles,north or south. While there's a few thousand people in this basin, there's lots of NARRROW mountain passes between me and most everybody else. there's lots of lakes and streams around here. The "rivers" wouldn't be good sized creeks back in Ill, tho.

 

[Garand]

An hours drive north or an hours drive south of me, I would be surprised if there were 6 people for every 30 square miles.

 

[Glenn Bartley]

If I had my choice of where to head it would be to the deserts of the SW USA. The fact of the matter is that I live about 15 miles east of the NYC border, so if the SHTF I may have to go to sea to get away from it. Not a bad idea if I can find the right boat.

Ever think of heading to a population center when the SHTF. I imagine there could be some advantages to doing so dependent upon the type of poop and the size of the fan. :sidestep: Actually I do know of some places in upstate NY that would be pretty far emoved for the average Joe, but as I said the deserts of the SW would be my choice.

Just in case you think upstate NY would be a terrible choice take a look at the attached pic. It is pretty dark up there.

Best regards,
Glenn B

 

[andy]

they still hunt BEARS in NY State. Lots of it is wilderness. If we forget to fasten the catches of our garbage "totes", they are strewn everywhere most mornings. We can see bears EVERY morning, at the garbage dump, 5miles away, if we get there before everyone else's vehicles scares them off.

 

[Stillwater]

If I had my choice of where to head it would be to the deserts of the SW USA. The fact of the matter is that I live about 15 miles east of the NYC border, so if the SHTF I may have to go to sea to get away from it. Not a bad idea if I can find the right boat.

Ever think of heading to a population center when the SHTF. I imagine there could be some advantages to doing so dependent upon the type of poop and the size of the fan. :sidestep: Actually I do know of some places in upstate NY that would be pretty far emoved for the average Joe, but as I said the deserts of the SW would be my choice.

Just in case you think upstate NY would be a terrible choice take a look at the attached pic. It is pretty dark up there.

Best regards,
Glenn B

The deserts in the Southwest have been a drouth for the last six years. A friends well has been dry for five years. you might want to rethink the Southwest for SHTF survival.

 

[mrostov]

As someone who lives in the deserts of the SW, if something bads happens and I'm still living in the SW, I am so outta here. The SW also has rugged forests and mountains that get a lot of snow. THAT is I'm heading.

The SW is a very diverse, rugged, and shockingly hostile environment. It is not a place to be in a crisis survival situation for those who are not well familiarized with it.

 

[TODD 3465]

Unfortunatly for me I'm in a red-zone. But, in a quick move, like a 30min drive I'm in a 1 to 19 area.