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Discussion Starter #1
OR fighting, post shtf, and survive, except by LUCK? if you hit 50 men in 2 years, you will have done more than most of the Medal of Honor winners did in ALL of WW2.

If u hit 90+%, foraging,(as you certainly should, given scoped, canned .22 rifle) and have ANY sense about taking deer, dogs, livestock,etc, and using snares, nets, boxtraps, trotlines, etc, 200rds of 22lr will last you for many years. By then, you'll have "recovered" or barteed for, many more rds of 223 and .22lr.

PLANNING on being stupid, wasting .22's on small birds, MISSING a lot, etc,is a piss-poor way to look at survivalism. So is wasting your time,now, practicing with your slingshot, looking for rocks that MIGHT fly halfway straight, etc. That's kid stuff, man. When you AINT at ALL good at fast work with the guns, weak shoulder work with the rifle, and don't have a clue about hand to hand, THAT'S what you work on, not silly assed slingshot bs.
 

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Translation: "They call me GunKid, I have a slingshot phobia, and I don't know how to hunt."

WHO here has ever stated that a slingshot is their primary game killing tool?
 

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As Jeff Cooper says "When someone tells you that they are a survival expert ask them politely but firmly just what they have survived."
 

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223 fan said:
OR fighting, post shtf, and survive, except by LUCK? ...

If u hit 90+%, foraging,(as you certainly should, given scoped, canned .22 rifle) and have ANY sense about taking deer, dogs, livestock,etc, and using snares, nets, boxtraps, trotlines, etc, 200rds of 22lr will last you for many years. By then, you'll have "recovered" or barteed for, many more rds of 223 and .22lr. ...
I agree. First shot hits are all the more reason why an accurate rifle is a survival asset. A scoped and iron sighted bolt action .22LR, or my preference .22WMRF, makes a wonderful survival rifle.
 

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If you need extreme accuracy and if a .22LR would work, AND all of the ammo you need is what you are carrying, then probably a primo rifle might be the Ruger 10/17. It's a 10/22mag (steel receiver) with a .17HMR barrel. The 99/17 would also be a good choice.

The .17 HMR rifles all have a rep for surgical accuracy and the .17HMR can blow a hole in a stop sign at 175 yards with ammo that doesn't weigh any more than .22LR. The report isn't much more than a .22LR and it has absolutely zero recoil. It's not uncommon to punch 3 holes in a target at 100 yards that can be covered with a dime.

So, you have a rifle that's surgically accurate, way more potent than a .22LR, and 1000+ rounds of ammo in your pack.
 

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Well, I appreciate the .17HMR's light recoil, but the pad on my .22WMRF seems to be working (ha ha).

I like the .22WMRF over the .22LR for essentially double the energy and penetration, but particularly for the flat trajectory. While the .17HMR may be superior in some ways to my .22WMRF, the .22WMRF works well enough that I can't justify replacing it.

In my experience the small game maximum point blank range (MPBR) of the .22LR is about 50 yards, while the .22WMRF's MPBR is about 100 yards. No doubt the .17HMR has an even greater MPBR but I just can't bring myself to replace my trusty WMRF bolt action.

There is an unusual advantage of the .22WMRF over the .17HMR that comes to mind. The .17HMR requires special, tiny cleaning gear, while any ordinary .22LR cleaning gear will fit the .22WMRF.
 

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Yeah, the cleaning gear thing is of consideration. Some .22mag barrels you can just replace to rechamber it. What has caught my eye about the .17HMR is that the ammo is like carrying .22LR weight wise but with a lot more power.
 

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The .17 is a fun round. But, INHO, if you have a .22 WMR, I don't see any reason to get it unless you just want it. Last I saw too, the .17 ammo cost more than the WMR, but that was when it first came out, might have changed by now.
 

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I like the .22 Mag. in concept and one of these days would like to set up a Ruger 10/22 in .22 Mag., I just havn't gotten my hands on one yet. I know lots of folks that think they make a pretty good utility/truck rifle, you see alot of the Marlins around here, usually with a low power Jap scope.

For survival/field use the .22 Mag makes more sence in a dedicated rifle than the .22LR to me, there is very little I can't do with a MKII that can be done with the .22LR. The 10/22 .22 mag would be pretty slick on a Butler Creek stock and a 4x compact Leupold, Powers Customs trigger group and some fire lapping to take out the usual Ruger bore constrictions. We fire lap all our 10/22's and the groups always shrink by quite a bit and makes cleaning the bore very easy. There are always constrictions under the dovetail cuts, but they come out pretty easy.

If you intended to go hard into the back country, a decent LW .22 Mag and a Compact Glock could make a pretty good reasonably priced combo. I think it was on Plainsmans Cabin that I saw a .22 mag with a skeletonized stock, short barrel and a forward mounted scope. Pretty need rig, but unless you did the work it would probually end up costing as much as an AR.

I have never gotten too serious about a .22Mag since I've had a .22 Hornet Ruger #3 Carbine since I was about 12 years old and it has always served just fine. My dad had a cheap Savage .22 Hornet with a Weaver K4, we reloaded for them and they got used alot. My brother gave my oldest a boy a Ruger .22 Hornet with a 1 3/4 x 6 power compact scope for his birthday, really a nice rifle after some trigger work. He spends most of his time with his AR though, so it hasn't been shot all that much. We have a bunch of .22 Hornet reloading supplies that will probually last till hell freezes over, we shoot much, much more .223.

Teuf,
 

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Teuf, what do you use to fire lap a 10-22?

RIKA
 

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Any non-plated lead .22LR ammo, usually Fed GMM for us, with the bullet only carefully rolled on a steel plate that has Beartooth Bullet lapping compound on it. The lead bullet will pick up the 320 grit silicone carbide that is supported in a grease matrix and turn the bullet a dark dull grey.

Once the bullet is dark grey carefully wipe down the case and go on to the next, it's kind of tedious, but works well. The silicone carbine only cuts the tight spots were the bore constricts and it cuts both the land and the grove uniformally.

I got this idea from a smallbore shooter that conditions his match rifle in such manner. I have a 40X bore scope with a light and you can really see the difference some lapping rounds make. Even more important you can see the difference on your targets.

Fire lapping also works good for revolvers, and Beartooth Bullets of MT sells soft slightly over-sized cast bullets for the task. Almost all revolvers can stand to have thier cylinder throats reamed and the constrictions lapped out. Rugers are the worst offenders, I bought my favorite 5.5" .45 Colt Redhawk cheap because it was a barrel leading, in-accurate POS. Now it never leads and shoots into 1.25" from a rest at 25 yards with 300 grain Performance Cast bullets @ 1250 fps. Its former owner shot it later and couldn't believe it, so I tuned his current Redhawk for him since it wasn't much better than the one he sold.

Teuf,
 

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Discussion Starter #13
There's no reason whatsoever to be without the 223, concealment, threaded muzzle, rustproofing, ease of cleaning, GI caliber, parts, mags, .22 unit, etc. Then if you have need of power, you have it, 5-6x asmuch as you have in the.17, and 4x what you have in the 22 mag. why settle for 350 ft lbs, when you can have 1400 ft lbs, hmm? realistically, the subsonic .22lr and the silencer are the way to go. Why make so much noise, and NOT have any power or rapidfire? You are GOING to "call in" enemies with all that noise, and you won't have a thing to handle them with. THEY aint dumb enough to only have a bolt action, or only have a .22.

If the subsonic .22 lr's 90 or so ft lbs aint enough,the 223's 1200 ft lbs either AINT too much,or you never actually HAD to shoot in the first place (beyond the range-capability of the subsonic .22).
 

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Discussion Starter #14
since u are ALL such wonderful stalkers, able to take ANY animal with a sling shot, what's with your inability to get within 40m and use the subsonic .22, hmm? Which is it? You can either ALWAYS get within 4m, or your slingshot is a COMPLETE waste of time.
 

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223 fan said:
since u are ALL such wonderful stalkers, able to take ANY animal with a sling shot, what's with your inability to get within 40m and use the subsonic .22, hmm? Which is it? You can either ALWAYS get within 4m, or your slingshot is a COMPLETE waste of time.
Nice try, but it's a non-sequitor. You are making a stupid argument that has no merit whatsoever.

Read this next part several times before responding with something even more stupid (if that is possible):

Having the skill with a slingshot is a bonus. It's a useful skill. Having this skill does not mean it is the only skill you plan to rely on. In fact, you may plan to NOT rely on it. That way, if something UNFORSEEN should happen, you have another skill to fall back on. It's called having contingencies, not putting all your eggs in one basket.

In fact, even though WE CAN use the SLINGSHOT, we probably WILL USE a .22.

Hey, look having skill with either one doesn't mean you can't have skill with the other. Who would have thought that was even remotely possible?

Gosh, should an UNFORSEEN event take place that makes the .22 unusable (for any reason - doesn't matter why), we can fall back and use the slingshot without missing a beat.

However, the unprepared person, that one that figured everything would always go their way, is SOL without the .22, as they deemed the slingshot a waste of time.

Having a useful skill that you never use is not a waste of time, especially if you consider what not having a skill that you find yourself needing means.

Stop with the stupid drama queen ranting - your best bet at this point is to pretend the slingshot posts don't exist and you never made yourself look stupid by trying to get out of the hole you dug for yourself.

:devil:
 

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No prob Rika,

It's intresting to see the effect of the lapping bullets though the bore scope. The tight spots show up as shiney "streaks" as the high spots are cut down. Though I call it "cutting", it really is lapping since the abrasive compound is very mild. I usually fire five rounds, run a patch and the scope. If you don't have a scope you can use a bore light tipped at an angle and see the effects as well. You will have o play around a little till you get the right angle.

If you have a favorite .22 and want to keep the original contour barrel, this is a good way to bring the group size down and pick up some useful accuracy.

It also works on centerfire rifles as well, my CZ 550 .375 H&H had a rough bore from the factory, you could see the copper streaks in the bore and it was tough to clean them out. Beartooth Bullets also has, soft, oversized lead lapping bullets for rifles. I used a few grains of TITEGROUP and an unsized case, you just push the oversize bullet into the unsized case neck with a 7/8 bolt in a single stage press. It made all the difference in the world.

I know a bunch of CAS and blackpowder cartridge (single shot Sharps, Maynards ect) shooters that use the tecnique, tight bores are most readily seen when shooting cast lead.

The tight spots swedge down the cast bullet as they pass though and the bullet doesn't get "upset" enough to fill the rifling again, that lets hot gass get by and causes the "leading". With rifles is usually under barrel cuts and where the barrel screws into the reciever. On revolvers it's where the barrel screws into the frame and on Rugers, where thick part of the barrel comes down to make the front of the ejector rod housing. For some reason it's always extra hard there.

Teuf,
 

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Rika and Teuf

Tubbs makes his Final Finish fire lapping kits for rimfire now. I've never used the rimfire kits, but I've used the centerfire kits on two rifles now and really like the results. For $33, it's probably a LOT more expensive than Teuf's method, but you have to pay for the convenience.

You can check it out here: http://www.zediker.com/tubb/finalfinish22.html

Midway also carries them ($27.50) (Click Here)

Edited to add: Check out the customer reviews at Midway ... they weren't too good.
 

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Tubbs system got good reviews on the centerfire kits and mixed on the rimfire. I had never heard of his rimfire kit, but know several folks that have used his centerfire kit with some succsess.

It's pretty easy to "load" a lead .22 rimfire bullet with silicone carbide, I don't think I would pay $33 for his kit. I noted in one of the complaints about the rimfire kit, the reviewer complained about lapping compound on the cartridge case. I'm pretty particular about cleaning my cases before I chamber them and I chamber them carefully by hand. If you tried to run them though the action you could scrape off the compound and that may be why one of the guys had trouble chambering them.

You just never know what folks are doing!

Of course never try and lap a chrome plated bore.

Teuf,
 
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