a real blast, too, and is a real eye opener, too. After you find out that the SO overwhelming .45 ball rd, .45 L Colt lead flat point wont reliably stop either of those 5-10 lb animals with a chest hit, and you see a 90 gr jhp 9mm reliably knocking them for a loop (at 1500+ fps) you begin to realize how MUCH bs,lies, and ignorance there IS out there, about real flesh and blood performance of ccw loads. I moved up, to big feral dogs, and the .45 ball rd did WORSE, not better, too. Such loads shoot thru big dogs, from end to end. To claim that they don't exit men is pure bs or ignorance.