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Hell, it's so hot where you live that you <font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font> out with a .32 ACP, most of the time. I big knife weighs a lot more than a Kahr PM9, and aint anything like as concealable. There's no reason whatsoever to have a big knife and no gun.
 

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So tell us about your escape!
 

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Even the Ghurkas consider the Khukri to be supplemental to their main weapon. Its basically a utility knife that is also used for fighting as required. Of course the Khukri was probably used for field surgery on a person like yourself from time to time by one happy Ghurka.

RIKA
 

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andy said:
Hell, it's so hot where you live that you <font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font> out with a .32 ACP, most of the time. I big knife weighs a lot more than a Kahr PM9, and aint anything like as concealable. There's no reason whatsoever to have a big knife and no gun.
Yes, it is hot here, very hot. In the heat of the summer I usually wear shorts and a loose fitting button up shirt. Common attire here and a cool way to dress in this climate which kind of resembles Tunisia.

Actually, the smallest thing I'll normally carry is a .380ACP or a 9x18mm, but I can also CCW an M1911A1. When I'm riding my mountain bike, usually out on the Indian reservation, I'll normally wear a shoulder holster or a secure belt holster, like my M1911A1 in a Bianchi UM-84 (in addition to a 3 liter Camelback hydration bladder).

andy said:
There's no reason whatsoever to have a big knife and no gun.
There's an old axiom that says, 'Sh1t Happens'. You should heed that.

Out in the field, backpacking or even after SHTF, you should have with you, on your person or in your pack, either a big knife like a khukuri or a hatchet, in addition to a smaller knife.

Not only is it an excellent field tool, the khukuri has enough power that you can kill, disable, or impair the fighting ability of someone with a solid strike on almost anywhere on the body.

A well made khukuri, like one from Himalayan Imports, can cut a man's head or forearm off in a single blow, or disembowel him with a single thrust (you thrust the blade in and, due to it's shape, it naturally opens up the entire abdominal cavity when you yank the blade out).

In one knife style slice across the throat, the khukuri can sever all of the vessels and the windpipe. With one solid whack it can take off the entire head. Also, like a hatchet, you can kill someone simply by whacking them with a solid blow to the skull. You can also sever a spine with a solid strike to the centerline of the back. A blow that hits the face can take out an eye, cleave the nose in half into the sinus cavity, cleave the entire face in half into or past the cheekbones, or sever the jaw, either partially or completely.

If they try blocking with an arm or trying a swing or a thrust at you, you can split a hand lengthwise to the wrist or beyond, sever a hand, whack off all of the fingers in a single pass, or sever the arm, cleaving either through the entire arm or at least one bone of the forearm.

A khukuri can serve well as either a hatchet, machete, knife, or short sword. Unlike a hatchet though, you have between 7" and 10" of sharpened surface (or more, depending upon the model) instead of the normal 2.5" to 3" of the hatchet. Unlike a hatchet, you can thrust with it and it's better for slicing during a fight. It's also easier and faster to sheath and unsheath than a hatchet. However, unlike a sword or a machete, it tends to be more compact and handier to use as a general field tool and to pack around as a secondary weapon.

A weapon like the khukuri is also silent (the possible screams of your opponent not withstanding), and the length gives you a serious reach advantage over your opponent.

The khukuri (kook-ree, a derivative of a Greek word for 'razor') is the descendent of a Greek military weapon introduced into the areas of modern day India, Pakistan, Nepal, and Afghanistan by the troops of Alexander the Great.

It doesn't have to be a 'big' blade. A well made medium sized blade like a Kabar, a Buck 119, a Cold Steel Recon Tanto, a Buck 105, Cold Steel SRK, Schrade 137, a Katz Tanto, etc, make good fighting knives in addition to being good field knives.

A person should learn to be proficient in weapons other than firearms. To do otherwise is both lazy and shortsighted. You have to have the gear and practice with it before you seriously need it.
 

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The two top blades are 16.5" (over all length) WWII models, also known as a 'Dehradoon' because that is where they were originally designed and made in India for British forces during WWII. The bottom blade is the 15" (over all length) BAS, the British Army Service model, current issue to Gurkha units.

The current issue khukuri is a required part of the day to day uniform of Gurkha troops. But, when they are deployed to combat they are often allowed to bring khukuris other than current issue and many bring brigger blades like the WWII pattern or some will bring an heirloom blade their fathers or grandfathers carried in WWII and other wars. Many non-Gurkha troops have also taken to carrying the khukuri, often in their rucks as a field tool.



This is a 16.5" WWII with a water buffalo horn handle compared to a Cold Steel Trailmaster. Horn handles feel nice, look nice, and don't rot, but they are subject to shrinkage and splitting in extra dry climates (you need to rub lanolin into them). Many martial arts fighters who use khukuris prefer wood handles since they don't get as slippery as horn in case of an actual fight (fresh blood is about as slippery as motor oil).



This is a 15" Ang Khola, probably one of the most common khukuri styles in many areas in Nepal (where nearly everyone over 8 in rural areas has a khukuri, men and women alike) and is considered an excellent field craft tool and a great chopper. Knives like this one is the survival knife of the Himalayas.

 

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andy said:
...There's no reason whatsoever to have a big knife and no gun.

I can't imagine very many scenarios where I'd be wanting a knife instead of a gun; but in addition to a gun, it's a great thing to have.
 

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Having efficient equipment and hands on training makes us extremely likely to survive. The keyboard commando will die in a snivelling heap within the first week. Too bad you won't go on an outdoor adventure with some of the group. You would learn a lot - even how to put together your own kit.

RIKA
 

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Does anyone know if one can buy the khukris direct from the forgers of HI knives? I have a family friend in Nepal that will be coming to visit my mother next year and am wondering if I should ask him to bring one over...

thanks,
Erik
 

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Mike, which khukuri do you personally own and which would you recommend for a woman (with strong arms and wrists).

Thanks

RIKA
 

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attn. krept

after reading that post, and you want one of them!

by all means, get ahold of your mothers friend and see about him bringing you back a 'good ' one!



a word of advice, it's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog ! [ i know it's old, but! will forever ring true.]

it is a hack/chop style of blade, heavy, with limitations,but! whicked with attitude/purpose!

thanks.
 

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krept said:
Does anyone know if one can buy the khukris direct from the forgers of HI knives? I have a family friend in Nepal that will be coming to visit my mother next year and am wondering if I should ask him to bring one over...

thanks,
Erik
HI is the maker. The distributer here in the USA is their front end sales guy for all of their sales. You might be able to get one at the door of their shop. The HI website shows where in Nepal that it is.

You can get knives in Nepal cheaper in price, but the shipping brings you up to what an HI is and it probably won't be as well made a knife. A ton of khukurs are made for the tourist trade and are lacking at best.

The blacksmiths at HI's shop have some of the best gear in Nepal to work with (they are one of the few that even have safety goggles and they have electric tools) and they only hire the best blacksmiths in the country. In a country where a blacksmith is considered to be doing good if he makes $50 per month, HI's Blacksmiths average usually at least $200 per month or more, essentially rock star wages for a blacksmith in Nepal.

HI's blades are thicker than normal and well made. They use a differential temper and their blades are made from Mercedes leaf springs. German and Scandanavian vehicles use a slightly different, higher grade spring steel than everyone else. It's not regular 5160. One Ang Khola was even sold to a highway patrolman in a remote area who uses it as an emergency tool to extract victims from wrecked cars in the even the rescue people will take too long to get there.

They have a lifetime guarantee. If you get a blade that has a problem, simply ship it back to Bill Martino up in Reno and he'll ship you a fresh blade, free of charge. Try doing that with a shop in Nepal.

Raider said:
Mike, which khukuri do you personally own and which would you recommend for a woman (with strong arms and wrists).

Thanks

RIKA
I own all of those pictured plus some more that weren't shown. Probably the one of the best to get at first to try out would be the 15" Ang Khola. The 16.5" WWII is considered by many to be the best combination fieldcraft tool and fighting weapon. Myself, I don't like to carry around khukuris over 16.5" to 18" in overall length.

My 15" Ang Khola is a superb field tool and feels good to practice with as a weapon. The temper on mine is excellent and the tip is better shaped for thrusting. When you get one, you'll probably have to put the edge on it that you want.

The most bombproof one is the 16.5" Ang Khola with the 'Chiruwa' handle (full tang). People rave about them and they are almost indestructable with 1/2" thickness at the spine. Saw a review once where some NYPD cops were using one as a portable entry tool to rip lock hasps off and to rip open doors.

When you get any differentially tempered (only the edge is hard quenched), hand made blade like that which does hard strikes and takes a lot of impact shock, there is a danger that someone got careless and quenched the tang. This happenes sometimes when blades are made around Nepalese holidays (the human hand isn't quite as steady with a hangover), so if you get an HI knife, beat the [email protected] out of it as soon as you get it against a log or something similar. If the tang has been quenched, it will fail in the first dozen strikes. I've had one fail and Bill Martino sent me two for free to replace it. He said the failure rate is about 1 in 1000.

Go to HI's forum and they have some sales running plus some daily deals. The daily deals are usually posted once a day and if there are some running sales they'll either be posted or you can email Bill Martino from the HI website. http://www.himalayan-imports.com/

BTW, I don't have a fixation on khukuris, in case you're wondering. I just prefer gear that works extremely well and is well made (the two go hand in hand). I'm just picky. I may try out a few knives before I find a keeper, one that I really like. I'm also always trying out new things.

For instance I also like Buck knives. This set here lives in my pack. I use them a lot but I always put them back in my pack. These things stay sharp long after other blades go dull. Those are a pre-'86 Buck 103 and Buck 105.

 

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Thanks Mike. I'm thinking about the 16.5in 'Chirhua' Ang Khola. I also really liked the little Kagas Katne paper knife. Think it would make a dandy and unusual Christmas present for selected friends. If I get a check Friday will place an order with HI.

Took your advice and bought the large (4 inch) Camillus boot knife new in an Ebay auction. Its a good size and takes an excellent edge. Makes a good companion for the Cold Steel SRK.

Don't know why I love knives but I just do.

RIKA :)
 

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Thanks for the info guys. The fellow that we know is named Shree and is 100% Nepali so he will know the local customs, etc. and can ask for a good blade meant to be a user and not just a display piece.

I've been interested in khukris for a long time... interestingly, I recently became interested in bladesmithing and am pounding out a piece of 5160 as a hybrid khukri/machete (less of a bend and dramatic leaf shape than the standard khuk). My first experiment with differential heat treating (tempering is when you soften it a bit in the oven and can't be zone isolated) was successful in a 7" or so blade... but it was a PITA to keep it relegated to the area I wanted to quench as opposed to dipping the entire blade. I can't even imagine how hard it would be... or how big of a tank you would need to differentially heat treat a khukri.

From what I have been reading about them (recently rekindled my interest) they are a great all around user. I'm also interested in the type of steel that they use at HI... 5160 .6% carbon and 1% Cr... great for a tough blade (higher carbon content is good for smaller knives but more prone to breakage, less carbon and you lose the edge...1% Cr gives the steel a better ability to respond to multiple quenches and tempers) that's pretty much it. Any more alloys I'd think would complicate the heat treatment and you'd probably lose the ability to have any semblance of a hamon (zone of differeing hardness like you see on the japanese blades).

Perhaps the springs that HI uses are cleaner versions of 5160. The 10XX series it tricky to heat treat, anything else would probably be too expensive... I'm really interested in that stuff. FINALLY a subject I can talk a little bit about haha everything else is over my head.

cheers and thanks again for the info.

Erik
 

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Discussion Starter #14
there's no reason to settle for a pissant 380 that's bigger and heavier than a 9mm, which hits 2-3x as hard. Nobody regards a even a full size 9mm as a real manstopper, much less a 380 sized 9, like the Kahr. The 380 and the Mak are jokes by comparison to the 9mm, too. Until you get up into the 500 ft lb or so levels of the 4" 357, nothing is much of a manstopper, even with multiple chest hits. A full sized 9mm can get into the 600 ft lb range, with special loads. A pocket 9 can get 500 ft lbs, or if it's rechambered to 356 TSW, 600 ft lbs. Compared to the 150 or so ft lbs of the tiniest of the 380's, using typical factory ammo, or the 200 or so ft lbs of the mak, that's considerably more power. It even makes the 350 ft lbs of the full sized .45, with 230 gr ammo, look pretty pathetic. :)
 

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Those khukuri (spelling) are impressive looking but if you are not adept in handling one then a K-Bar WWII fighting knife would be a better choice. In fact the newer smaller K-Bar would be a good all time carry knife - not too obtrusive and big enough to get many jobs done. It is a great all round utility knife or a pretty darn good fighting knife.

While I agree with Andy that I cannot imagine walking around without a gun and just a big knife like one of those Indian monstrosities, I have to say that if the SHTF and I had a choice of either a good pistol or a good knife, I might just have to choose the knife. Sure you can kill someone with a gun to get a knife - but remember my choice a pistool or a knife - no cans, no rifles, etc. If you are alone in the boonies when the SHTF you would pray that you could find some of the right rocks and then figure out how to chip it away to make a blade if you did not have one; and it ain't easy. A knife is a much better tool than a gun because it is capable of doing many more jobs overall. Both would be great and I always carry both, but the knife is the better tool by a long shot.
 

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Those khukuris (kukris) are really not much bigger than a bowie knife, but their angle gives them an amazing amount of leverage force. One of the things a person has to ask themselves about concerning a knife is, "How fast can I construct a shelter with this?"

JD, first off you have to get a gun that can take your jackhammer theoretical handloads. The loads you espouse still aren't safe to fire, especially out of a carved up and hacked Star.

FYI, the 9x18mm Mak is about the same size as a G26 and with a 115gr Silver Bear load it's only 90 ft/s slower than a 115gr Federal load out of the G26.

The .356 TSW is a non-issue since it's an utterly defunct cartridge that was basically stillborn.
 
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