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Twenty Five yards with any serious service pistol is not long range. Damn, I used to throw a hand grenade a lot farther than that. Seriously though, my LEO Trainees hit a Transtar II target 21 times out of thirty at 7, 15, and 25 yards.
 

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Top hands,with match 1911's, hit 10" gongs, 90m,

from standing unsupported, 2 hand hold, no problem. However, when it's for BLOOD, all that changes, DRASTICALLY.

The 4 NYC punks who missed Diallo 19 out of 41 times, at 5 m and less, andwho missed his chest 40 times out of 41 shots, could without doubt hit a torso EVERY shot, at 25m, in PRACTICE. Diallo didn't even have a weapon, never threatened them, andthe panicstricken punks STILL unloaded on him, andmissed the kill zone with 95% of their shots. 4 guys to 1, completely overwhelming the man, body armor on all4, and they SHOWED what worthless <font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font> they were.
 

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Terry,

Well as I said elsewhere, regardless of someone's skill 25 yards but moreso 50 yards are long distances for pistol or revolver shooting especially in tactitcal situations. Just because it is long range does not mean someone can not shoot beyond that nor that it is at the far end of the possible shooting range for that type of a gun. It is a fact however that in firefights, handguns are considered short range weapons and most departments only fire them to 25 or 50 yards at most. One of the reasons for this being because those are considered the safe long ranges at which to shoot these weapons because of their design as close in and defensive weapons.
 

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An angry post by an angry man. Everybody who likes being called a lazy chicken<font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font> please raise their hands.

RIKA
 

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andy said:
in handgun shootouts. The only reason most handgun use is successful is that it's against guys who are unarmed, or who only have knives, clubs, etc. The fact that you want to THINK that you are "better" doesnt mean squat, other than the fact that you are lazy and chicken<font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font>. You HOPE it's at long enough range to make you somewhat safer from the average punk's pistol, and because you are SCARED to work at real speed up close, and lazy to boot. You wanna just PLINK, and HOPE that that sort of half assed "skill" will be enough to save you.
Whom are you talking about? I train in close on a regular basis, as close as within easy arms reach. I also train out to 25 yards regularly, and I get in as much shooting as I can up to about 90 yards with my handguns. I have been in several armed encounters throughout my career. One where I shot a guy from only about 10 feet or so away. No I did not hit him in the chest as I fired as soon as I cleared leather and utilized vertical tracking meaning the first shot would be low. It was low but it rang his bells so to speak and got 5 holes with one bullet. That was all it took to send him scampering away, and I then turned my attention to the other attacker. I have also been attacked by a guy with a knife, hand to hand and I won without being cut, and I have been attacked by a guy who tried to take my revolver from me and then wound up biting me, but I won that one also. I have also been attacked by up to 5 or 6 attackers at once who beat me with fists, kicked me with feet, broke bottles over my head and tried to take my gun away - can you guess what they would have done had they gotten it? I was also attacked by 3 or 4 hoods and beaten with my own nightstick, but I continued fighting until I got the nightstick back, retrieved a revolver from my personal car, and held two of them for the police. There have also been numerous other encounters in which I was directly involved where I had to fight my way out or to the top, and I am here to tell you about them. Go figure - who is the scared, lazy chicken with those half assed skills? It sure ain't me; and I doubt that your description fits the other fellow in this particular thread, or almost anyone on these forums.

As it is, you may have the biggest ego on these boards. Yet, you sure don't have, in my opinion, any great deal of experience if any at all when it comes to the things that real men have lived through, as far as I can tell for your seemingly quite often self contradictory rants. So why don't you clam up for a while with the nasty, provocative postings and be a little more respectful in your tone when you are addressing other members on these forums; and why don't you think things out before you say them. Why not cut out all the snide remarks, and blathering that makes you appear to others as a wannabe cry baby! Why not stop treating the rest of the forum members as they are your enemies; and remember that if some of them are your enemies it is probably because you made them become your enemies! No I am not being derogatory, I am just stating this fact: That is how others perceive you because of what you yourself write and because of the nasty style in which you write it.
 

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Only a <font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font> would only train for urban/telephone booth fighting in case the balloon ever went up.
 

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Andy,

It proves nothing you ever said in this thread. You can only miss the chest at 10 feet if that is what you are aiming for; since I was not aiming at the chest but utilizing vertical tracking and aiming or point shooting at hip level, then the ball sack was a rather acceptable first target. Is it you just do not understand the tactical reasoning behind using vertical tracking? If you need an explanation or a lesson, I would be happy to oblige you, it is a pretty basic concept in tactical shooting, and a tried and true method of shooting to win.

By the way, I guarantee that had I aimed at his chest, I would have hit it dead center even under the stress of an armed encounter (as opposed to match stress - ROTFLMAO). As a matter of fact, my next shot pretty much proves this point as it hit the windshield of his car, exactly at head level of the car's driver who was attempting to exit the car with a revolver in his hands. Too bad the bullet did not fly true after it penetrated the windshield. To bad I had multiple attackers or there would have been a very good chance at least one of them would have been one less guy to worry about in the future. As it was the guy in the car sped off in reverse with the other guy following afoot. There were no misses of any sort by me that day. I hit what I was shooting at with each shot, under the real stress of an armed encounter, and I knew when I was legally obligated to stop shooting too.

My stress level was pretty high but I was able to maintain control under real stress as opposed to someone else who constantly talks about match stress and how powerful are its effects. In a match all weapons are pointed the same way - downrange; none are pointed at you. In a match you are shooting at paper targets not at men. In a match there is no to very little risk of deadly injury. In a match you shoot against a timer, but in a real fight you shoot against the speed of your opponent, sometimes more than one who is intent on harming you. In a match your targets are not trying to attack you, and even if they are moving at you like attackers they never really can get you like real bad guys - they are paper tigers at best. In a match you know you are going home when it is over, on the street you can only hope. In a match you start shooting when the range master gives the command that you are expecting to come, and if you don't do well you lose the match and come back tomorrow or the next day for another. On the street you often react to the unexpected and if you react to slowly or don't do well then you are dead. Match stress indeed, whom are you trying to kid. Missed shots because of the real pressure of an armed encounter, whom are you kidding. When you want to discuss real tactical shooting let me know; but until then why not join reality, because in my opinion you are just too far out of touch to be adept in any tactical situation other than maybe a sneak attack at night with a canned pistol as you so often describe yourself as being able to accomplish.
 
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