[andy]

even OWN, much less carry, a 357 Snub, or indeed, ANY revolver. At least the M21 can be silenced, making it one of the 2 pistols I'd want, if shtf. At least the M21 is pantspocketable, giving me the .5 second advantage of the "hand on gun" ready position, and convenience of ccw carry. At least the M21 (smithed) is fun to plink and hunt with, low cost to shoot, useful for teaching beginners, and winning bets from guys who "think" it can't hit 10" disks at 100 yds, from the Weaver.

The 357 snub is nothing but jerking yourself off about how "reliable" and "powerful" it is. it barely, in the J frame, gets 125 gr jhp's to 1250 fps, where they MIGHT expand in flesh, for 400 ft lbs. That's nothing more than a 5" 9mm gets (ie, 125 gr jhp's, at 1250 fps) and the 9mm gets repeat hits TWICE as fast.
DA's misfire at LEAST 10x as often as do cocked and locked SA's, so the FIRST shot from the autoloader is actually MORE reliable than it is with the revolver, and the FIRST shot is the one that better get things going your way, or luck is REAL quick gonna determine what's what, not your "ability" and not the "power' or the "reliability" of your revolver.

 

[GBullet]

Many of the men and women that we respect for their skill with firearms have carried .357 Mag revolvers. Charles Askins and Bill Jordan were particularly well known for their advocacy of .357 Mag revolvers.

Rex Applegate carried a 6-shot 2" Colt revolver in WWII, a 5-shot .38 S&W, then 5-shot .38 Spl J-frame throughout his really active years in Mexico, etc.

"Jelly" Bryce carried a .357 Mag, too.

 

[KJUN]

> At least the M21 can be silenced, making it one of the 2 pistols I'd want, if shtf.

Yes, we should all be carrying a silenced handgun with our CCW/CHL....or at least one with the ability to be silenced. When it does hit, I'm much rather have a silence rifle and leave that hundgun on my side for what it is meant for.

> DA's misfire at LEAST 10x as often as do cocked and locked SA's, so the FIRST shot from the autoloader is actually MORE reliable than it is with the revolver,

Right. Sure..... and when you do get amisfire in a pistol, just keep pulling the trigger and yo'll just keep falling on the same bad round. You get a whole other chance with the revolver.

Doesn't matter, though, right?
KJ

 

[andy]

since revolver is DA, and DA is ALWAYS

a handicap at fast hitting. and since the M21 CAN be carried cocked and locked, it's a non-issue. You have no clue what all the pistol might HAVE to do. The rifle MAY have to be concealed post shtf, just like it sometimes has to be concealed today.

 

[KJUN]

"You're right, Moe. You're always Moe."

 

[andy]

too bad you can't debate on the ISSUES

aint it? I have no trouble at all showing up guys like you to be fos. That's what you are, so it's manifest in short order.

 

[GBullet]

It seems to me that most defensive needs of handguns occur within a dozen feet and take place without much warning. Since the defender may have little time to more than draw and pull the trigger, a small DA revolver or auto would have merit. For these reasons, a .38 Spl J-frame or Taurus equivalent would appear to be well suited. The ports of the Taurus might give it the edge for repeat shots.

 

[andy]

actually, if your world aint BROWN, there's

nearly always a second or so of warning. If there wasn't, slow and inept people like you wouldn't have a chance, gun or no gun. The problem with the 38 snub is manifold. It's feeble, hard to control, bulky in a front pants pocket, hard to hit with swiftly for the first shot, is fragile, etc. It's just a bluff, realistically, just like the .22 pocket auto is just a bluff. If the bluff fails, the .38 snub is:" a VERY weak reed, with which to prop up one's hopes of longevity", as Jan Stevenson once said.

 

[Rich Z]

Well, yeah, I guess everything considered, I would rather have a .50AE in my pocket when I really needed it, but after a few hours of lugging something like that around, it will get old real quick. On the other hand, a S&W airweight can be carried and forgotten about, so more than likely that one will be carried day in and day out.

I firmly believe in Murphy's Law. There is no doubt in my mind at all, that the one instant I leave my gun sitting on the dresser is the one instant when I will have a circumstance arise where I REALLY wished I had it in my pocket. So with that in mind, I tend to choose a carry weapon that is most likely to be carried at all times.

So how us a .38 snub "fragile"? And why is it and harder to hit the target swiftly over anything else you may use?

Honestly, it surprised the heck out of me to discover that I seem to shoot more accurately with handguns with shorter barrels than longer barrels. Seems completely opposite of what I would have logically expected.

 

[andy]

ever shoot one against a TIMER, rich?

compare average times to those of top hands, using more amenable, powerful sidearms.

ALL revolvers are fragile. You can EASILY bend a barrel, cylinder pin, or crane by droppiing the pc on a hard surface, or using it as a sap, and I mean bend the crane or pin so badly that you can't FIRE the gun, cause the cylinder wont rotate at ALL. Quite a few cops have found this out the hard way.

 

[Rich Z]

ever shoot one against a TIMER, rich?

No I haven't. But I did kill a chronograph once. I won that one, hands down. Chronograph didn't stand a chance.

I suppose my philosophy concerning a carry gun is that it is something I will carry a lot but shoot seldom. So my decision on what to carry is greatly influenced by this common sense approach. Most people just don't get into gun fights very often in day to day life. Matter of fact, I would think that most people never will have this happen to them. Carrying a gun is much like having car insurance, I guess. It's good to have it, but most people really don't want to have to collect on using it. And certainly most people do not go out of there way in order to use it, even though they have it.

So do most people practice what they are going to do when they have an auto accident? No, certainly not. And certainly most people do not spend a lot of time practicing quick draw drills, shooting from odd angles or difficult scenarios, or other such things professionals who will likely need those skills do practice on. The likelihood that the average person will ever have to draw on those sorts of skills is so slim, that most people will feel that the return on investment of time, energy, and effort, will just not be worthwhile.

But yeah, if I had unlimited time, it probably would be a lot of fun doing such things. But there are higher priorities for my time, all things seriously considered.

 

[bucfan]

My thoughts too Rich.
Nick

 

[KJUN]

Re: ever shoot one against a TIMER, rich?

> Re: ever shoot one against a TIMER

I've never been attacked by a timer. I also haven't had a reason to attack a timer needlessly. Why WOULD one have a shoot-out with a timer?

KJ

 

[andy]

I've had a mild life, really, but i've drawn

on men twice, and had them at gunpoint 2 other times. I've drawn on attacking dogs numerous times, too. All it takes to need a gun,fairly often, is just not crawl on your belly like a little grandma has to do. I go where I want, whenever I want, and if anybody wants to "try" me, they can find out just HOW tough they really AINT.

 

[andy]

u can KID yourself about your "abi,lity"

to handle a fight, or you can KNOW that your ability, and that of your gun andload, are TOP of the line,by means of a timer, target, and knowing what the other top men in the world can achieve, in terms of hits per second. I naturally prefer the latter. You've got time to hunt squirrels, instead of poisoning-trapping them, you've got time to build quick draw skills. I had the ability, at age 14, to drop a coin from waist height, draw and fire before the coin hit, (one hand point shot). It's not my fault that it takes most people til age 40 to figure out what's what. it only takes ONCE to need real abiltiy with a gun(and not have such) to put an end to ALL your worries.

 

[KJUN]

14? So, you've been doing it for what 2-3 years now?

 

[andy]

37 years. Now, however, I can do it

from concealment. have been able to do so since age 30. Figured out that Navel is the fastest ccw belt positon. Put coin on top of weak hand, since weak hand begins the ccw draw, by clearing the hung out t shirt "tail".

 

[KJUN]

Funny. In posts lately, you claim to be 51. 4 months ago, you claimed to be 52. I think under 21 is closer.

 

[andy]

IF I wrote 52, it was a typo. I was

24 when I first shot IPSC style matches, in 1976. Like I said, I've FORGOTTEN more about this subject than you punks will ever learn. If you "thiink" that a 17 year old could know 100x about guns, ammo, shooting, etc than you do (as is obvious that I DO know) then where's that put YOU, punk? Kindergarten, that's where.

 

[84 C4]

^^^

I think your the only one here who belongs in kindergarten, I also think your the only one who needs to spend some time in the "time out corner."