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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
a .22 conversion unit or a .22 "look alike", is 5-6 hit per second controlable, has AP ammo, and hits as hard as possible. That is, at LEAST as hard as the much ballyhooed 4" 357 and 125 gr jhp's. Such a 357 offers MAYBE 1500 fps, which is a tad over 600 ft lbs. However, if you chrono most loads, in all 6 chambers, it's more like 1450 fps, which is 560 ft lbs. The 3" 356TSW Star has 590 ft lbs, and it has both the Split Nose prefrag advantage, and it's got the rifle softpoint temporary cavity advantage, so it's got more poop than the 4" 357.

The pocket Star has everything but the .22 unit, and I'll deal with that shortcoming some day. Until then, the M21 Beretta, altered to Cocked and locked carry, will suffice as a rimfire "pocket trainer", and it also has unique advantages of its own.

A pocket pistol can always be worn on the belt,or in some other way. A belt pistol can never be ccw'd in the front pants pocket. Ergo, the belt pistol is not as versatile as the GOOD pocket pistol, at the things that MATTER.

If a pocket pistol, and maybe body armor, AINT enough, you'd BETTER have the canned CAR-15 and some grenades, because a LITTLE more power or range than the pocket Star has is REAL unlikely to suffice, and that's all your wussy belt gun has (if that much.)
 

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223 fan said:
... Such a 357 offers MAYBE 1500 fps, which is a tad over 600 ft lbs. However, if you chrono most loads, in all 6 chambers, it's more like 1450 fps, which is 560 ft lbs. The 3" 356TSW Star has 590 ft lbs, and it has both the Split Nose prefrag advantage, and it's got the rifle softpoint temporary cavity advantage, so it's got more poop than the 4" 357.
Perhaps, but I can take a typical 4" .357 and know that it will do the job. The .356TSW is unproven.

223 fan said:
... Until then, the M21 Beretta, altered to Cocked and locked carry, will suffice as a rimfire "pocket trainer", and it also has unique advantages of its own.
The M21 Beretta can already be carried cocked and locked! Did you not know that?
 

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That is your opinion, nothing else but an opinion. It is not fact, just because you say it is. Given the wide variety of experience on this board that has been demonstrated I think we all have our own chosen firearms. Those that will suit our own particular circumstances. Why do we need grenades? Are we going to start offensive operations? Are they legal in the US for private citizens?
 

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Besides, the .356TSW no longer exists, and the tin, split nose never did exist, it's a do-it-yourself proposition only, and is, at any rate, inferior to the modern premium hollowpoints.
 

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GunKid has a such a rich fantasy life,
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
the 357 MIGHT be "proven", but YOU aint. First you gotta HAVE that 4" 357, WITH you,when needed,and it WONT be, and WHO says that the 356is 'unproven"? It's WELL proven, on animals.So it'son YOU to prove that human flesh and blood DOESN'T repond to bullets the way OTHER mammals' flesh and blood. :) Good luck, dip<font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font>.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
TRY carrying a stock M21 cocked and locked, and making a FAST draw with it. :) Your thumb 'bump" falls about 1" to far forward of the tiny safety lever, <font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font>head. It's stupid comments like this, by you, that tell me you don't know jack crap about speed-shooting.
 

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Far from the truth.

The "ideal" pistol does not have to fit in the pocket because the pocket is far from the "ideal" method of carry, it's a part time carry that shouldn't set the criteria for a full time carry gun. Don't even start with your BS, telling me I should be sitting on my pistol.

The "ideal" pistol will be compact and LW for daily carry, reliable, durable for much practice, of common caliber and will have a .22 top end for training. It will not be some some hacked up "one off" project based on an out of production base gun.

There are quite a few "factory" handguns and calibers around that would work just fine. If you can't protect yourself with one of these, you are just too lazy and inept to protect yourself with anything.

Teuf,
 

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223 fan said:
the 357 MIGHT be "proven", but YOU aint. First you gotta HAVE that 4" 357, WITH you,when needed,and it WONT be, and WHO says that the 356is 'unproven"? It's WELL proven, on animals.So it'son YOU to prove that human flesh and blood DOESN'T repond to bullets the way OTHER mammals' flesh and blood. :) Good luck, dip<font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font>.
You don't know how "proven" I am. You offered bets, I accepted, but you refuse to go through with them.

But let's stick to the facts...

The .357 has been used for both defense and hunting all over the world for more than 2/3 of a century. The .356TSW has been used by a tiny number of people.

You advocate rechambering an out-of-production pistol of modest strength to .356TSW.

You advocate smokeless powder in blackpowder-only guns and incorrectly thought that a 1911 could chamber a round without cocking the hammer.

It is your gun knowledge that is unproven.
 

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I'm a firm believer that a second handgun in .22 LR has more usefulness, than a switched top handgun. Any well build handgun, that is reliable, durable and in a readily available caliber can be used within its limitations in a pinch. The key to using a handgun effectively is practice. Marksmanship is a perishable skill that needs to be maintained regularly if you choose to defend yourself with a handgun.
 

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Just get a .357 sig. Any good Sig or Glock. Maybe even a Colt Defender (.40 S&W) with a .357 sig barrel. No need for a pos Star abortion.

Besides my 1911s and Ruger speed six, a Glock 33 in .357 sig is an outstanding CCW gun.

Of course, gunkid can't even touch guns, so his experience can never match mine. And gunkid, the CAR is a losers gun.
 
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