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If a .44 has a problem............
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What is the point of having a gun if you can't carry it with you. The 44 Magnum is an easily transportable handgun. Perfectly acceptable for where he lives. He lives in bear country - as in Alaska. A 223 rifle/carbine isn't exactly socially accepted for a stroll along a hiking trail but the handgun is. It was there when he needed it. You claim: "More people are killed by lightning or insect bites-stings than are killed by UNPROVOKED bear attacks." So what. He was attacked a bear and killed it.
Guess you're just jealous because Gary saw the elephant but you didn't.
44 Maggie wins. Bear loses.
RIKA
Guess you're just jealous because Gary saw the elephant but you didn't.
44 Maggie wins. Bear loses.
RIKA
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Gunkid/erika, if you had cared to read the article more closely, you would have noticed that the bear died of multiple wounds from a .44 magnum. Thus proving to the most sceptical that the .44 works. Please post an article where a bear has actually been taken down with a .223 game gun.
It's kind of funny isn't it? When the .44 Magnum was new, it was beyond beleif in its power. It was too powerful for a lot of things. Oh the grandeur. Now with the .454 Casull, the Linebaughs, the .500 S&W, all of a sudden the .44 is underpowdered. No, it's not. It's LESS powerful tha the others, but is NOT underpowdered. The .44 has both enough power and penetration to be a good choice to defend against large animals. Just because someone is inept and unbale to control anything more powerful than a .22, does not make superior rounds useless. In short, for dangerous game encounters you need something that can get to the vitals, and the .44 is enough gun.
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Speaking of the S&W 500, I saw a photo of a model with only a 4 inch barrel on it. I'm thinking of getting one for my carry piece. If a bad guy hassles me, I will throw the gun to him and tell him to shoot me with it. As he pulls the trigger, my lightning like reflexes will allow me to dodge out of the path of the bullet. That poor sap, however, will be instantly killed by the recoil alone. Either that or the noise from the ported barrel will blow his eardrums and scramble his brains.
Ordinarily I like big calibers. But I have NO desire whatsoever to have one of those bad boys. Guess I have a mild case of "whimplash".....
Ordinarily I like big calibers. But I have NO desire whatsoever to have one of those bad boys. Guess I have a mild case of "whimplash".....
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4,814 Posts
Hmm, I wonder how close the .500S&W ballistics curve is to the .50Beowulf? The Beowulf makes an interesting addition as an upper to the AR15. But it has a rebated rim so it can function with an unmodified 7.62x39 bolt, which most certainly kept the cost of manufacture down. Years ago I bought an upper modified for .50AE and the machine work on the bolt looked like it was done in someone's outhouse. I sent that thing back, pronto.
If I was to go on the trail and only a handgun then the glock 20? in 10mm would be the choice. 16 shots of 10mm without reload. Not as powerful as a .44 magnum but pretty powerful and much easier to shoot fast. Good 180 or 200gr FMJ and spare mag or two. Quite light in weight to and extream reliablity under all circumstances.
If a long gun, a good simi-auto 12 guage shotgun with slugs.
If a long gun, a good simi-auto 12 guage shotgun with slugs.
If you go with the 10mm, don't get the commercial crap you find at the gun stores. Get the real deal (I'm not sure, but I think Norma is the only one that makes full-spec ammo). The 10mm is to the .41 Magnum what the .357 Sig is to the .357 Magnum, in the lighter bullets, they're essentially equal, in the heavier bullets, the Magnum starts to pull away, but not by a lot.
If you're going to use a slug, use the Brenneke slugs. They're harder and penetrate better.
If you're going to use a slug, use the Brenneke slugs. They're harder and penetrate better.
Rich Z:
.50 Beowulf 400g JFP, 400 grain Jacketed Flat Point Velocity 1850 Ft/sec, from a rifle
.500 S&W 440-gr hardcast 1625 Ft/sec, from a pistol with an 8 3/8" barrel.
Now put it in a rifle with a 16" (guide gun) or 22" barrel. . .it'll probably outrun the Beowulf.
Ouch.
.50 Beowulf 400g JFP, 400 grain Jacketed Flat Point Velocity 1850 Ft/sec, from a rifle
.500 S&W 440-gr hardcast 1625 Ft/sec, from a pistol with an 8 3/8" barrel.
Now put it in a rifle with a 16" (guide gun) or 22" barrel. . .it'll probably outrun the Beowulf.
Ouch.
With a bear, any handgun is marginalized due to the low penetration when compared to a 5.56mm at close range.
A 16" barrel 5.56mm carbine with M193 ammo will drill through the thick steel bumper on a truck at close range. At that range, the hydrostatic shock will balloon the bear's head and the shockwave will shatter it's skull into fragments, turn the contents into mush, and the fragments will internally shred what's left. A close range, the 5.56mm out of an adequate barrel is a fearsome thing, even more so when you have 30 rounds on tap.
You can kill a bear will a surprising number of things, but you usually wind up doing the job with what you have on hand. For instance, one of the largest grizzly bears ever killed was dropped in it's tracks like a bag of wet cement by a desperation shot from a scared teenage Indian girl up in Canada with a single shot .22 and a single round of the now obsolete .22 long solid point.
For bear country, when you are not intentionally hunting bear, you have to have something WITH you when the attack happens. Since 99.999999999% of the time you are NOT being attacked by a bear, whatever you are packing needs to be small enough and convenient enough not to be a hassle or interfere with day to day life. Otherwise you'll eventually leave it at home when you should be carrying something 24/7/365.
A 16" barrel 5.56mm carbine with M193 ammo will drill through the thick steel bumper on a truck at close range. At that range, the hydrostatic shock will balloon the bear's head and the shockwave will shatter it's skull into fragments, turn the contents into mush, and the fragments will internally shred what's left. A close range, the 5.56mm out of an adequate barrel is a fearsome thing, even more so when you have 30 rounds on tap.
You can kill a bear will a surprising number of things, but you usually wind up doing the job with what you have on hand. For instance, one of the largest grizzly bears ever killed was dropped in it's tracks like a bag of wet cement by a desperation shot from a scared teenage Indian girl up in Canada with a single shot .22 and a single round of the now obsolete .22 long solid point.
For bear country, when you are not intentionally hunting bear, you have to have something WITH you when the attack happens. Since 99.999999999% of the time you are NOT being attacked by a bear, whatever you are packing needs to be small enough and convenient enough not to be a hassle or interfere with day to day life. Otherwise you'll eventually leave it at home when you should be carrying something 24/7/365.
For a long time I packed around a stainless 5-1/2" Ruger Redhawk in .44mag and, as a minimum I always had a small two compartment nylon belt pouch with two extra speedloaders (the Redhawk and the S&W M29 use the same speedloader). Myself, if not carrying a big revolver with extra speedloaders, I'd opt for a Glock 32 with extra mags full of .357Sig.
With military ammo, 2700fps is the normal fragmentation threshhold.
With M193 55gr ammo, the 16" barrel drops below 2700fps at 140m - 150 while the 11" drops below 2700 at 40m to 45m.
With M855 62gr ammo, the 16" barrel drops below 2700fps at 90m - 95m while the 11" drops below 2700 at 12m to 15m.
A little bit of barrel can make a lot of difference.
With M193 55gr ammo, the 16" barrel drops below 2700fps at 140m - 150 while the 11" drops below 2700 at 40m to 45m.
With M855 62gr ammo, the 16" barrel drops below 2700fps at 90m - 95m while the 11" drops below 2700 at 12m to 15m.
A little bit of barrel can make a lot of difference.
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Yeah, I thought the original spec for 5.56 was for a 20 inch barrel.
What about lowering the fragmentation threshhold by using something like Hornady's 52 grain SX projectiles? Or lowering the twist rate so that tumbling occurs when the projectile encounters something of greater density then air? The original M16s were 1 in 14 twists, weren't they? I thought it was designed that way for a reason.
What about lowering the fragmentation threshhold by using something like Hornady's 52 grain SX projectiles? Or lowering the twist rate so that tumbling occurs when the projectile encounters something of greater density then air? The original M16s were 1 in 14 twists, weren't they? I thought it was designed that way for a reason.
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