[andy]

in order to stop men,pretty pointless to shoot them with a 357 snubby, with its 16 factor momentum,eh? If 357's 16 factor momentum is adequate at axe swinging ranges,why aint the 223's 16 factor adequate, at 400 yds? 75 gr v max, 24" barrel, still has 2000 fps left at 400 yds, and that's a 16 factor momentum,and that sp will still expand. A 125 gr 357, at 1250 fps from a snubby barrel, aint all THAT likely to expand much at all in flesh, actually. A failure to stop, at 10 ft and less,is a LOT more dangerous to the defender than a failure to stop at 400 yds. At 400 yds, the guy can't do CRAP to you, after taking a fairly good lick to the chest. He CAN do so, however, at 10 ft. He can be all OVER you,in 1 second flat, standing start, from 10 ft away, and MOST handgun defensive shootings will be at SIX feet or less,where he can reach you in .5 second, and is PROBABLY already charging BEFORE you fire. At 6 ft and less, ANY shot he fires is HIGHLY likely to hit you. Wounded, at 370m, he can fire a truckload of ammo, and never touch you, if you have sense enough to be head on prone to him, which you had to be in order to hit him in the first place.

 

[Hard Ball]

When you shoot someone with a .357 Magnim they fall down dead or badly wounded.

 

[gripper]

I have nothing against 5.56.I just regard its performance as more than a little dependant on a high enough muzzle velocity with practical bullet weights and barrel length.Both mispec loadings(M193&M855/SS109)will do their jobs;its when you start to unreasonably shorten the barrel length that you give up a little more than I'd willingly choose to .Yes ,the shorty's are handy,and yes,for CQB,I'd say that a 14-16 inch barrel with either bullet weight makes a better "go to" than the pistol caliber squirt guns,like theMP5/whatever.Its wgere the range opens up a bit more that ,if you choose to go with a .223,that you lose a bit of terminal effectiveness.Ever since Mogadishu,and up to the present,you'll find that the M4's while grat for CQB,are prone to more than a few failures to stop at ranges beyond 150m.I'm told that the 77grain specialty loadings are better in this regard.Unless storage space/concealability is your major concern;I'd say you're better off with either an 18to 20 incher ,or(my choice) a larger caliber.

 

[Magnum88C]

The .357 bullet and .223 bullet have different terminal ballistic profiles, that's why they're different. If you, hog-humper, ever shot anything but your crap hole, you'd know that.

Gripper, he infact did go into how he thinks he can conceal the 11" AR in his pants and walk down the street with no one noticing the thing duct-taped to his legs. He never did explain where he'd carry his crutch (suppressor) or magazine, but we can guess.

 

[gripper]

Given his history,I'd wager THAT cincealment option would be a loose fit... :laugh:

 

[DJetAce]

gunkid would wear his dress. I bet he has a good pink one.

 

[Half elf]

With these mentions of momentum factors are You suggesting that a game such as Gamma World, or the Morrow Project are a basis of your shootist doctrine? These were RPG(Role Playing Games) from 20+ years ago, and not training exercises, nor did the people who wrote them have a real good grasp of reality. The y usually ended up in a "Mad Max' type scenario, with winner eat loser, and devil take the last man standing. If I read this wrong sorry, but I played those games 25yrs ago, and onlt thought the tactics training was worthwhile but not the actual combat system,.

 

[andy]

no, dumbass, the shooting world is FULL of <font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font> who "think" momentum is what you look at when evaluating a rd's potential as a manstopper. Plenty of them are right here on this board, and they include Jeff Cooper, Chuck Taylor,, and many other delusional bsers.

hey <font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font>, can't you RELOAD? or BUY softpoints? The 223 sp can still expand just fine at a velocity as low as 1600 fps, if it's one intended for use on small varmints, or 1800 fps when it's a design intended for use on deer or coyotes. My 11" 223 loads still have 1800 fps left at 250m. so you are just talking stupid bs.

 

[DJetAce]

<font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font>kids overloads would dammage your gun. Several posters here have pointed out gunboob has NEVER posted a link to ANY site that advocates the reloads he CLAIMS will shoot in his 5.56, which, BTW, I though <font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font>kid could not own guns. Are you, gunkid, saying you HAVE a CAR? If these are YOUR loads, then YOU have tested them? I bet not.