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could SHOOT, and LAID for troops, right outside the fort, they'd have had a LOT more freedom of movement. They were SCARED to try to move to Canada, or anyplace out of their normal terrain. That's not true of everybody, ya know. :)
 

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Just like you, scared to come to Canada! Thats all you have in common with them.
 

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Misconcepttion Mania this morning LOL

They stayed the hell away from forts and the Calvary because everytime they got mixed up with them they got thier @ss kicked. They feared the civvies even more and often ran back to reservations to escape thier wraith. Ever hear of Siebert, scalp bounties ect.? He and other professional indian fighters simply exterminated them on sight for fun and prophit.

Your lack of experience, has you believing your own propaganda, about just what it takes to pull off an ambush. You have no concept of tactical intervaul, fixing by fire and movement to contact drills.

Concerning moving about thier "terrain", the raiders had a huge circle of operations, they didn't walk like idiots. They failed because the net gain from raiding didn't over come the cost of the task. The cost in terms of men and effort was too high to sustain themselves. Consider that they also were experts in desert survial and knew the area very well, modern looters are not going to any such advantage.

It took many men to overcome the remote armed ranches that dotted the southwest. They where not easy nuts to crack, that and the ranchers didn't just sit around waiting for the indians, they spent thier spare time hunting them. They often sent groups of thier cowboys/gunman into indian camps and killed everything that breathed. So while braves are out raiding they come home tired and hungry to find thier women and kids rather dead and all thier supplies destroyed.

The camps and women were essencial to thier survival, the camps had all thier stored chow and the women did most all the work of foraging ect. The braves didn't have time for that kind of work, with the camps destroyed they got pretty gaught.

You just don't have a clue how things went in that day, it was a crule and brutal existence. Folks often shot white strangers out of hand "if things had been going on" and any indian got shot just for GP. Hell, old news papers are full of accounts of vigilantes just riding though country hanging everyone that looked out of place, often simply walking into the local jail and taking them.

One such group in Nebraska killed 40 some men in a two week road trip. Apparently you are unfamilure with the range wars and such in WY, AZ, NE, TX and ND. Folks did not mess around.

SHTF it will same all over again, the terrain determains the tactics and the terrain hasn't changed. One man making himself a pain in the @ss will have a short career. There will be plenty of capable men that would be happy to have thier family protected and fed under the sercurity a remote ranch offers in echange for thier efforts.

You need a new plan.

Teuf,
 

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223 fan said:
If pache had ghillies,canned CARs, could...
Yeah, yeah, yeah, well they didn't and they didn't have phasers either. The Cavalry couldn't call in airstrikes, blah, blah, blah.

Learn to use what you have available.
 

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The only reason the white man is even in America right now is because the native Americans could not overcome their tribal differences to band together to fight. Had they done that, we would not be here as we are today.

As for when they did get together and fight, it was too little too late. BUT, you can ask Custer about that.

Mike
 

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They only nailed Custer because his men didn't get to a spot where they could dig in quick enough. That and the Indians just had a zillion guys, a fair percentage with repeating rifles. Even then it was only part of Custer's force that got wiped out, it just happened to be the part with Custer in it.

Custer, for all of his personality quirks, was actually a skilled officer and quite brave. He was the one who cut off General Lee's retreat and forced the surrender at Appomatox Courthouse. His detractors like to comment about how he finished last in his class at West Point. That was not because he was stupid, but because he earned about a zillion demerits.

The Indians could have all banded together and we still would have kicked their asses. They were a brutal, backwards, stone age culture. By their very nature, banding together was impossible. They ought to be glad we left any of them still breathing.

If any other group of people besides White, northern Europeans had lead the wide scale settlement of what is now the USA, the 'Indians' would have all been either exterminated to the last man, woman, and child, or enslaved and carted off en-mass (for example: the Spanish did this in the Bahamas, hence no Indians are there).

When I was in college, I would always hear how some people lamented the passing of the 'Indian ways'. You see and hear a lot of that in the movies too. They were always wistfully bemoaning the passing of a 'way of life' that was, truth be told, brutal, homicidal, and barbaric.
 
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So gunkid is going to have a CAR and can but nobody else is going to have thermal immagary or night vision or electronic ears or any other device. See the stupe, gunkid, will be in his 'thick cover' while others pinpoint him by his heat signature or by using an electonic ear to hear him move, or by seeing him stumbling around at night trying to find water as he has not had any for days!
 
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mrostov... you shouldn't speak...

Since you obviously know nothing about Native american ways, don't talk about how brutal and homocidal they were. They had a very sustainable way of life and there was much to be admired in their ways so don't presume to play history professor and preach how lucky the idians were for being conquered by europeans. The funny thing is you post a message as if you're an expert on native american culture and history and I know a 65 year old german woman who knows more about native american culture and history than you'll ever be able to comprehend.
 

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Re: mrostov... you shouldn't speak...

Unregistered said:
Since you obviously know nothing about Native american ways, don't talk about how brutal and homocidal they were. They had a very sustainable way of life and there was much to be admired in their ways so don't presume to play history professor and preach how lucky the idians were for being conquered by europeans. The funny thing is you post a message as if you're an expert on native american culture and history and I know a 65 year old german woman who knows more about native american culture and history than you'll ever be able to comprehend.
You're being self-righteously delusional, plain and simple, whoever you are 'unregistered'.

I know far more about real aboriginal American history than obviously you do. I've even done archeological work on digs. Obviously you've gotten most of your history from 'Dances With Wolves'.

Let me guess, you saw a powwow on PBS and pretended to be 'one' with your 'native' American 'brothers'. Or are you one of those Whites that likes to pretend they are Indian because they suspect that they are 1/346th part Cherokee? (with all of the people claiming to be part Cherokee, I bet the real Cherokees just wish they had that much sex going on)

BTW, did I mention that I live amongst a whole reservation of Indians? Real Indians, full bloods, not wannabe White pretenders. I personally know more real Indians than you've probably ever seen on TV.

The 'old ways' were brutal and savage, plain and simple.

The Indian 'ways' you see now is just the ceremonial and the practical living off the land stuff with all of the bloody brutality conveniently stripped away.

For instance, the favored Kiowa tactic of entertaining themselves with prisoners by tying them up spread eagle, covering them with pine splinters like a porcupine, and them setting it on fire, flashing their skin off while they were still alive and screaming.

FYI, culturally, your average REAL 'Indian' has far more in common nowadays with your average White ******* than Cochise. Many of those glorifying the myth of the purist 'Native American' lifestyle are delusional Whites, who all too often lack their own cultural and racial identity, not Indians.

Like, for instance, about 14 years ago when the Navajos wanted to teach some of the old practical living off the land, stone age style skills to their kids. They had to bring in a White man, who was a primitive skills expert, to do the teaching.

Sustainable? Now, THAT is a real joke. Seems you've bought into the myth that the aboriginals here were buckskinned environmentalists.

Did you know that the aboriginals in the southwest who built crude towns would simply exhaust the area and then just move on to another town every few generations.

The only thing that made their stone age lifestyle sustainable was the FACT that there was damn few of them for the size of the continent, regardless of PC revisionism that now tries to up their population figures.

Did you know there is a cave here in Arizona where they found over 100 men, women, and children brutally massacred by their fellow Indians? That wasn't the only massacre site that has been found.

Oh yeah, do you know about all of the evidence of widespread cannibalism from the aboriginal period? There's LOTS of it.

Sorry to pop your PC illusions, but sometime you have to wake up to the ugly truth, huh?

BTW, you'd better bet your ass they should be glad it was us instead of some of the other potential conquerers that could have landed here, otherwise they wouldn't currently exist at all except maybe as a historical footnote and a few pot shards buried in the ground.

What's really kind of humorous is how the further east you go in the USA, the Whiter the 'Indians' become. Out here, full bloods are common. Many of the 'Indians' I've seen back east are far more White than Indian. Many could probably easily pass at a Klan meeting if they had to.

If one is a real Indian, and they want to celebrate their 'ways', no matter how watered down they are, fine, but for Whites lacking their own identity to try to pretend to be something they are not, a real Indian, is pretty pitiful.

Probably even more pitiful than glorifying and sugar coating the truth about a brutal, stone age culture.
 
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