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Discussion Starter #1
you aint going to "suprress" anyone with your "volume of fire", and you can't count on resupply of ammo, either. You are not trying to "raise morale' on any body, cause you aint gonna HAVE anybody. Experienced combat shtf guys are going to LOVE hearing you waste lots of ammo on misses, KNOWING you are an idiot that they will SOON be "harvesting". All that noise you are making is going to call in OTHER enemies, that you won't know about, who are going to shoot you in the back.

You'd BETTER hit nearly 50% of your shots with centerfire rifle, shtf combat, and EVERY shot with it at game. and nearly every shot at game with .22 unit and pistols. DEFENSIVE Pistol fire, when everyone is carrying an autorifle, will be so desperate a thing, that it better NOT happen more than 2-3x, nor more than 2-3 shots per occasion, or you're not going to make it. It won't be like today, with most firing at guys who are unarmed, or who only have a knife or club, or who run after firing 1-2 rds of .25 ACP at you.

Of course, the 22 unit in the AR is mostly for foraging, so you should get very nearly 100% hits in that mode (or not fire) altho you may occasionally lose an animal, or have to hit it twice. Say 90+% success with .22 on animals. You should of course have all the odds on your side, before firing at men with the .22 unit, (or be using the 223) so figure at least 70% success with the .22, and at worst, 50% of 22 firing will be at men. So, 80% success with the .22, overall. this totals 40+ men down from your 80 odd rds of 223, and as many more from the .22 unit. Having to hit 80 men constitutes a LOT of stupidity on your part. You shouldn't BE where you have to actually HIT 30 men a year,(and that, only the FIRST year of shtf) and most of that will be on your way TO your chosen retreat area.Things will calm way down within a year, either because some sort of order will be restored, or because nearly everybody is dead. Once things have calmed down, there is likely to be a lot of bartering in the great excess of ammo that is left for the few survivors, ya know, along with alll the stupid sorts of rifles and shotguns that they have in excess. You will without doubt recover a lot of ammo and guns from dead bodies, which you DIDN'T shoot, too.


What all this means is that the 84 rds of 223 and 200 rds of subsonic 22lr will either suffice to get you LOTS of other guns and ammo, some of which will of course be .22lr, and almost certainly, some of which will be 223. Also, the original "load" will either be enough to get you thru til things calm down a lot,(ie, you wont need ammo, or no more than .22lr) or you are just too big a screwup to make it thru with ANY gun, caliber or amount of ammo. Being too fatiqued to NOTICE enemy activity-presence, or to prevent illness-accidents, is not an option. Fatique and such risks will be constant, surviving lots of fights, by missing a lot and being stupid enough to get INTO such, is not the answer. Neither is scaring off lots of other game, because you fired at one animal or bird.


The use of a can on the rifle, for foraging and fighting, will not only increase your hit %, and not scare off other game in your immediate locale, it will drastically reduce how much fighting you have to do. After enemies discover that you can silently pick them off, and they have no clue what to do about it, they will recognize that they MUST vacate your AO. Also, not hearing your shots, either at game or when you clean out some "rabble', means that other enemies, 1-2 miles away, don't come looking for you.

By staying in either thick cover or darkness, you greatly reduce the chances of anyone detecting you at all, and even more reduce their chances of HITTING you, and even more reduce the need for you to fire at all, or fire very much, or use the 223, instead of just plinking 1-2 of them with the subsonic .22 ammo, using the conversion unit.

What you'd never DARE to start with a bolt action, shotgun, or unsuppressed .22 or centerfire, is quite feasible to get done with the suppressed autorifle. You can get so many hits, so swiftly, with such little risk to yourself, that opposing you will be very daunting indeed. With such gear, you can hurt an enemy so badly, so frequently, that they just can't continue to take those sorts of losses, and will have no choice but to leave your area (or die). Just FINDING lots of stripped human remains in a given area will be enough to convince most guys to move on. they will KNOW that there's WAY too effective an enemy in that area. One hunk of woods is like any other, as far as they are concerned. They will move on to safer, easier pickings, like any successful predator does. those who don't, end up not being around to prey on anything, and they know it.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
having a "fort' or any sort of fixed, visible place, where you STAY, both makes you more likely to be found in the first place, and a guy can always RETURN there, with buddies, better gear, etc, with the reasonable expectation that you will still BE there, and that you have enough stuff to be WORTH the risk-effort. A guy whom they shot at in the brush, who killed some of them silently, in 1-2 seconds, and vanished, hell they are HOPING they never encounter HIM again, much less go LOOKING for such a man.
 

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You've never been in a real gunfight, have you? Man are you in for a f^cking surprise.

andy said:
You are not trying to "raise morale' on any body, cause you aint gonna HAVE anybody.
Speak for yourself, not everyone is a sociopath who's forced to be alone and will die alone.

andy said:
having a "fort' or any sort of fixed, visible place, where you STAY, both makes you more likely to be found in the first place, and a guy can always RETURN there, with buddies, better gear, etc, with the reasonable expectation that you will still BE there, and that you have enough stuff to be WORTH the risk-effort. A guy whom they shot at in the brush, who killed some of them silently, in 1-2 seconds, and vanished, hell they are HOPING they never encounter HIM again, much less go LOOKING for such a man.
There sure are a lot of magical bushes that make you utterly invisivble....

Or is it one of those armor plated bushes that will withstand a mag full of 5.56mm?

Methinks thou hath watcheth a ninja movie too many.
 

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So, if a bunch of people are shooting at you, you aren't going to put your head down? (That is suppression.) The alternative, of course, is you will be shot and killed.

By the way raising morale is increasing morale. I think you are trying to say demoralize.

:devil:
 

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But no one will know where to shoot as the notorious 'bush' can make someone utterly invisible and impossible to locate - and of course, everyone will simply panic in fear of the dreaded 'can'.
 

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Don't forget that one shouldn't just run from cover to cover but instead jump, dodge, zig zag and shout "Woo hoo! Woo hoo! Woo hoo!" like Daffy Duck while doing so. Any chance that you'll be hit will be RANDOM.
 

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A guy whom they shot at in the brush, who killed some of them silently, in 1-2 seconds, and vanished, hell they are HOPING they never encounter HIM again, much less go LOOKING for such a man.
Lotta interesting points in there. One thing about this quote, however... maybe there aren't many vindictive people out there, but if someone were shooting from brush, I'd try to burn it down if I could get close enough... one good reason for improvised bow/arrow, etc.
 

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You hope you can vanish without leaving a trail. You hope your vanishing act doesn't lead you into another group of people looking for you.

You hope your vanishing act doesn't expose you to more trouble.

You are hoping that everyone is a coward. You kill the wrong person(s) and you may find yourself hunted in a way you never thought possible.

Once again, you underestimate what you will be facing.

:devil:
 

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I thought gunkid was this quick draw guy who bragged about missing real fast? Now he says don't shoot till you can guarantee a hit. It's "do as I say, not do as I do", right gunkid?
 

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The fantasy continues............................... But I love the details, post more!
 

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I have to point out that in the original post in this thread, there are more flip/flops than John Kerry gives in a month!
 

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Wanna see something really flip-flopping around? Wait till he takes a .308" bullet from someone he's trying to ambush.
 

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Garand said:
The fantasy continues............................... But I love the details, post more!

'COPY....THAT'

i kinda liked ol' boy davis's thread!

the 1-2 mile range is quite laughable[sp]

you better have a 10 mile buffer[i'm sorry,! but ol'boy, has got my face in the wind on this post.]

the dead bodies/bones are a mental factor,on any one![regardless!,i know ,the sight will shake/jar the unprepared!]

all-n-all the kids/ol'boys, post! was treading water![so to speak]




THANKS.
 
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