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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
and way too much ammo for same, you could HAVE the ability to be armored and carry more water. Typically such people also waste another 10 lbs on tent, sleeping bag, etc, etc. They've got all that wonderful gear (and no silencer) and leave themselves wide open to get picked off by the first kid with a crossbow ( with target arrows) or pellet rifle. :) the first guy to shoot at you is highly likely to kill you, if he's seen you first and is hiding. Especially if you don't know the area and don't know how to move from one point of cover to another. Then your stuff belongs to somebody else.
 

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Walking is always the LAST resort, only an idiot would think of it as the first solution. Dependent on the circumstances of the catastrophe, far more kit ie: severe weather clothing, ammunition, food & water might have to be carried. If you can physically achieve the same level of fitness at 63, as you could at 20 years old, you have achieve a miracle that 99.999999999% of the male population of North America, over 60+ can't.
 

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if you werent wasting 10 lbs on .30, .45 and way too much ammo for same, you could HAVE the ability to be armored and carry more water. Typically such people also waste another 10 lbs on tent, sleeping bag, etc, etc. They've got all that wonderful gear (and no silencer)...

...and leave themselves wide open to get picked off by the first kid with a crossbow ( with target arrows) or pellet rifle. :) the first guy to shoot at you is highly likely to kill you, if he's seen you first and is hiding. Especially if you don't know the area and don't know how to move from one point of cover to another. Then your stuff belongs to somebody else.
I'm lost at the connection between the areas I separated...? I agree that having too much crap, too heavy a pile of crap, too little water and no suppressor can certainly be a negative.

But how does having a suppressor (or not), or choosing a .30 carbine over a .223 (or not), have any effect on whether the concealed crossbow kid can perforate me?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
too much weight is too much weight, john, that means they disregard the need for the armor and it's 308 or 30AK, not 30c.
 

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He's been watching "The Walking Dead" again, re: crossbow
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
very few people are fit enough to hump even a "mere" 40 lbs in normal times, far or fast. Given the horror of shtf, the mental stress will be severe and personal losses may already be disabling. The "60 lb clowns" make no allowances at all for carrying a kid, or helping a loved one walk, etc. EVERYTHING is about being out in the open in daylight (stupidly) not having a silencer, shooting at what they can't SEE, dumbass belief in heavier bullets (ie, .45) or "long range. Just jettison stuff that's FAR more likely to be of value over that retarded crap. Most are lard-assed smokers in the first place. they couldn't walk 30 miles in 2 days, over rough terrain, with NO gear, just the 10 lbs of water needed, much less 50 MORE lbs of gear and food.

I went thru a lot of crap getting the BOB down to 35 lbs, that's with half a gallon of water and just 1 lb of rations. 12 lbs of guns,ammo and related gear, 5 lbs of armor, night vision, 4 lbs of shelter/sleep system, 2 lbs of "extra" clothing. getting everything else down to just 7 lbs called for a lot of R and D.
 

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detailed list, please
 

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too much weight is too much weight, john, that means they disregard the need for the armor and it's 308 or 30AK, not 30c.
Already agreed with that, above. Personally, I have three good-quality suppressors, body armor including two concealable soft vests, two plate carriers with Level 3 'rhino-lined' front, back, and side plates; and two Osprey ceramic setups. (No other family members have armor afaik, so I've put together spares.) I also go with 5.56 carbine as my primary long gun and 9mm as my pistol caliber choice; so we don't really disagree on armor or weapons personally.

But if I were to pick different guns or choose to not have a suppressor, how does that have any effect on whether the concealed crossbow kid can perforate me? My CAR-15 doesn't make me any more observant or stealthy in the woods than my AK would.
 
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Length of firearms are really not that important. Sure short, is nice but fieldcraft is more important. Look at the famous Finnish Sniper Simo Hayha, he took out 505 Russians with a Finnish M28/30 Rifle with a 29 inch barrel. Equipment helps, skill is more important.
 

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Just had to bring that up didn't you! Now Fordperfect will have to drag his Mosins out an wipe them down an I will have to listen to how great they are.
 

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Just had to bring that up didn't you! Now Fordperfect will have to drag his Mosins out an wipe them down an I will have to listen to how great they are.

Oh hell sounds like a guy I went to school with.

Later he would do the same **** with both guns and cars. :nope:
 

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Just for laughs, look up mosin nagant humor. I tried to post it here but couldn't.
Comparison between the AR, AK, an Mosin.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
if the other guns are so heavy that they make you do without the armor. Isn't that obvious, John.? there's a limit to how much crap you can RUN with and armor is also a big introducer of heat stress. ARK native oughta know about heat stress.
 

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Again, I go the AR route myself. But even tilting things as much as possible in favor of the AR (lightweight AR carbine with aluminum magazines vs full-size AK with steel magazines) the diifference in AR with 90 rds and AK with 90 rounds is between 3 and 4 lbs; which is certainly substantial for on-foot travel considerations, but it's not going to be the difference between whether or not I wear my ~27lbs of armor. (My personal setup is coated 11x14's front & back with 6x8 side plates, so it is a little heavier than some.)

I'm actually a michigan native, but came south (Ft. Benning) in 1980; and have spent the last 36 years or so between Georgia, Texas, and Arkansas; including a substantial amount of time doing construction work in Houston, so I'm definitely familiar with heat stress. Also, being first-responder certified going back to 2001 or so helps keep one mindful of those things. For me personally, I'm old-ish now but frankly am stronger and more fit than I was in my 30's. (I won't claim I'm more fit now than when I got out of the service 34 years ago, but fitter than anytime in the last 20 years or so, and substantially stronger.)

Personal ramblings aside, my point in the original question is simply this - having an AK in my hand doesn't make me any more vulnerable to crossbow death than if I'd had an AR in my hand. You stipulated that he's seen me first and I haven't seen him, so "how much crap I can run with" is simply irrelevant.

If an unseen guy armed with a crossbow can kill me from ambush, the caliber, and even the weight, of the rifle in my hands just aren't factors in the equation.
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
I'm not at all in favor the rifle armor for shtf. I"m in favor of not being out in the open in daylight, which minimizes the risk of getting shot, by a lot, for a year, by any sort of projectile. So many will be dead in a year, that one's chances will be much better after that. depending upon how things have gone in that time, it might be wise to pick up some rifle armor from some dead body, but until then, I consider it a waste of $1000 or so. Have you hiked say, 30 miles in 2 days in the hills, wearing that stuff and your BOB gear, John? :)I'd bet not. What my experience at such things tells me is "40 lbs and less, or expect pulled ligaments". I pulled a calf ligament, jumped a 2 ft wide stream, with 40 lbs. Had to dump the sandbags and hobble the 1 mile home, return with the car. I'd been backpacking for a couple of months, so I was far more fit than the average guy.. i also messed up ankle and knee in that period, and ILL aint exactly rough terrain.. In basic, I saw half the company fall out during our second 7 mile hike of the day, 40 lbs or so of gear.

People who favor 1911's and 230 gr ammo tend to be lugging 5 lbs of that pistol stuff, 8 lbs of AK, and 90 rds is not much if you aint got a 22 unit and cant use the GI rd. Most of these twits talk about 50 rds of .45 and 6 loaded mags of .30 ak, at nearly 2 lbs each. Scope and mount are 1-1.5 lbs, as are most silencers for .308. or AK. Most want a target type sling and bipod, which add another lb. 28 lbs of gun gear. 27 lbs of armor, and still need 10 lbs of food and water, and all the other survival gear. total 80 lbs. Way too much, pard. by double, too much.

No suppressor means missing a lot, cause the fools right here on this sight will argue all DAY against carrying 5 grams of earvalve plugs. So they wont be carrying any armor. :) No can means flash at night, no .22 option means badly unready for many of the likely issues. I've never yet seen an AK or 308 fan argue for a .22 unit and have never seen a .45 fan argue for a silenced .22 handgun, either, altho Garand, (under an INTENSE amount of forum stress) DID one time acknowledge that such could be used. His terror of breaking Canadian silencer laws renders him a joke in any shtf discussion. :) he's even admitted having a shorty ar and .22 unit. Which was eating a fair amount of crow, for a canadian. :)
 

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very few people are fit enough to hump even a "mere" 40 lbs in normal times, far or fast. Given the horror of shtf, the mental stress will be severe and personal losses may already be disabling. The "60 lb clowns" make no allowances at all for carrying a kid, or helping a loved one walk, etc. EVERYTHING is about being out in the open in daylight (stupidly) not having a silencer, shooting at what they can't SEE, dumbass belief in heavier bullets (ie, .45) or "long range. Just jettison stuff that's FAR more likely to be of value over that retarded crap. Most are lard-assed smokers in the first place. they couldn't walk 30 miles in 2 days, over rough terrain, with NO gear, just the 10 lbs of water needed, much less 50 MORE lbs of gear and food.

I went thru a lot of crap getting the BOB down to 35 lbs, that's with half a gallon of water and just 1 lb of rations. 12 lbs of guns,ammo and related gear, 5 lbs of armor, night vision, 4 lbs of shelter/sleep system, 2 lbs of "extra" clothing. getting everything else down to just 7 lbs called for a lot of R and D.
Everything? with who?

The only person who claims people will have to be in the open is you.

The only one talking about standing around in daylight is you - though, how are you going to forage for small game at night?

The only one talking about shooting at stuff they cannot see is you. The only one claiming nobody will have a silencer, is you.

you also do not own armor or night vision. You've gone from dismissing NODs outright to touting child toy versions.

You also insist on starting out crippled.

You claim that long range is a waste of time, I see it as an option. Being able to shoot long range doesn't prevent you from shooting up close. Limiting yourself to short range stops you from shooting long range, It's going to suck if you find yourself in a situation where you're being engaged by someone who knows their stuff from further than you can shoot.
 

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very few people are fit enough to hump even a "mere" 40 lbs in normal times, far or fast. Given the horror of shtf, the mental stress will be severe and personal losses may already be disabling. The "60 lb clowns" make no allowances at all for carrying a kid, or helping a loved one walk, etc. EVERYTHING is about being out in the open in daylight (stupidly) Show me one post by anyone other than you claiming they would do this
not having a silencer, shooting at what they can't SEE, Provide a single post where anyone has claimed this. dumbass belief in heavier bullets (ie, .45) or "long range. Just jettison stuff that's FAR more likely to be of value over that retarded crap. Most are lard-assed smokers in the first place. they couldn't walk 30 miles in 2 days, over rough terrain, with NO gear, just the 10 lbs of water needed, much less 50 MORE lbs of gear and food. I'd be more than happy to take you on a hike , you in your gear, me in mine.

I went thru a lot of crap getting the BOB down to 35 lbs, that's with half a gallon of water and just 1 lb of rations. 12 lbs of guns,ammo and related gear, 5 lbs of armor, night vision, 4 lbs of shelter/sleep system, 2 lbs of "extra" clothing. getting everything else down to just 7 lbs called for a lot of R and D. Total BS. Provide a detailed list of your BOB, a picture would suffice.
:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
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