[Garand]

Unless your just playing in 3 gun matches?


Wesco vs M1 Carbine(ww2 caliber battle) #gun #caliber #head to head#history - YouTube

 

[John in AR]

I’m a big fan of the M1 carbine and if I was going to be stuck with just the one gun and an ammo can of ammo for it, the 30 carbine would definitely win out in my opinion; no question. It’s very light, fast to use, and as powerful as a 44 magnum handgun. If I couldn’t have an AR carbine, the M1 carbine would be my next choice, followed by the AK.

The reasons I like 9mm carbines are largely just due to the specifics of my situation. I already have defensive carbines in 5.56 and 300 blackout, so that’s covered. But the 9mm carbine has some pretty neat advantages for other things. In an AR style platform, it lets me get in shooting time with the same controls and ergonomics as my main gun, but with substantially cheaper ammo. Also, it lets me shoot close-in targets and drills substantially closer than you can really safely do with the 223, when shooting at steel like I mostly do.

Since I cast my own bullets for 9mm, it’s extremely cheap to load for. The 30 carbine can use home-cast bullets, but I have no first hand experience with it and I’d assume you’d have to be more fastidious about bullet hardness because of potential issues with gas system fouling.

And honestly, in a pinch I’d actually be pretty comfortable with a 9mm carbine for defensive purposes if pushed into a corner on it; as long as I got to choose the load. I constantly am reminded about two saddle guns that were used by family members to take a whole bunch of deer over the years; one 25–20 and one 32–20. One was my dad and the other was my wife’s uncle. For years, they successfully took a lot of medium-size deer completely adequately and humanely; and the 9mm carbine from a carbine exceeds both of those calibers power-wise. There’s been at least five, and maybe more, factory loads that exceed 700 ft/lbs of energy from my 9mm carbine, so as long as I did my part adequately I believe that’s adequate power; again, at least in my particular situation. I’m not law enforcement anymore, so I can’t see me needing to shoot through car doors or anything, or needing to engage anybody at any substantial distance either for that matter.

Basically, to me a 9mm carbine compared to other low- to mid-power carbines is much like a 9mm pistol compared to other-caliber pistols. It’s basically “OK“ in my opinion; not fantastic but not bad. I wouldn’t ‘want’ it to be my only defensive-carbine option, but wouldn’t be genuinely terrified if I was forced to use it in a pinch.

And less importantly, there’s also the convenience benefits of being able to use and handload just one load for rifle and pistol use; at least for the kind of stuff I mostly do. Same with magazine commonality. Absolutely not a “top-tier“ consideration, but it’s awfully handy.

Fwiw, somewhat off topic but the magazine-commonality thing is something I like enough that this weekend I started having thoughts about selling off my HK carry pistol and going back to glock. I really like the HK, but objectively the Glock does pretty much everything it can do (partly due to the Tau SCD on it; I won’t iwb carry a glock anymore without one), but the glock also shares magazines with the 9mm carbine and 9mm braced AR pistol. Haven’t decided for sure yet, just started thinking about it while doing a Rob Pincus pistol class yesterday. The class suffices for the ‘enhanced’ chl renewal qualification and only cost $50 more (plus ammo cost) than the mandated renewal course by itself, so I made a day of it. I used the HK for the first half of the day, and Glock the second half of the day, and both were more than adequate. So I may or may not sell the hk; not decided yet.

 

[Terry G]

I’m a big fan of the M1 carbine and if I was going to be stuck with just the one gun and an ammo can of ammo for it, the 30 carbine would definitely win out in my opinion; no question. It’s very light, fast to use, and as powerful as a 44 magnum handgun. If I couldn’t have an AR carbine, the M1 carbine would be my next choice, followed by the AK.

The reasons I like 9mm carbines are largely just due to the specifics of my situation. I already have defensive carbines in 5.56 and 300 blackout, so that’s covered. But the 9mm carbine has some pretty neat advantages for other things. In an AR style platform, it lets me get in shooting time with the same controls and ergonomics as my main gun, but with substantially cheaper ammo. Also, it lets me shoot close-in targets and drills substantially closer than you can really safely do with the 223, when shooting at steel like I mostly do.

Since I cast my own bullets for 9mm, it’s extremely cheap to load for. The 30 carbine can use home-cast bullets, but I have no first hand experience with it and I’d assume you’d have to be more fastidious about bullet hardness because of potential issues with gas system fouling.

And honestly, in a pinch I’d actually be pretty comfortable with a 9mm carbine for defensive purposes if pushed into a corner on it; as long as I got to choose the load. I constantly am reminded about two saddle guns that were used by family members to take a whole bunch of deer over the years; one 25–20 and one 32–20. One was my dad and the other was my wife’s uncle. For years, they successfully took a lot of medium-size deer completely adequately and humanely; and the 9mm carbine from a carbine exceeds both of those calibers power-wise. There’s been at least five, and maybe more, factory loads that exceed 700 ft/lbs of energy from my 9mm carbine, so as long as I did my part adequately I believe that’s adequate power; again, at least in my particular situation. I’m not law enforcement anymore, so I can’t see me needing to shoot through car doors or anything, or needing to engage anybody at any substantial distance either for that matter.

Basically, to me a 9mm carbine compared to other low- to mid-power carbines is much like a 9mm pistol compared to other-caliber pistols. It’s basically “OK“ in my opinion; not fantastic but not bad. I wouldn’t ‘want’ it to be my only defensive-carbine option, but wouldn’t be genuinely terrified if I was forced to use it in a pinch.

And less importantly, there’s also the convenience benefits of being able to use and handload just one load for rifle and pistol use; at least for the kind of stuff I mostly do. Same with magazine commonality. Absolutely not a “top-tier“ consideration, but it’s awfully handy.

Fwiw, somewhat off topic but the magazine-commonality thing is something I like enough that this weekend I started having thoughts about selling off my HK carry pistol and going back to glock. I really like the HK, but objectively the Glock does pretty much everything it can do (partly due to the Tau SCD on it; I won’t iwb carry a glock anymore without one), but the glock also shares magazines with the 9mm carbine and 9mm braced AR pistol. Haven’t decided for sure yet, just started thinking about it while doing a Rob Pincus pistol class yesterday. The class suffices for the ‘enhanced’ chl renewal qualification and only cost $50 more (plus ammo cost) than the mandated renewal course by itself, so I made a day of it. I used the HK for the first half of the day, and Glock the second half of the day, and both were more than adequate. So I may or may not sell the hk; not decided yet.

I just like the Ruger for range fun and hiking. It takes the Glock magazines which are pretty cheap to stockpile and 9MM can be had fairly cheap in bulk buy's which are the only kind I do for 5,56. .45 ACP, and 9MM. I put a red dot on mine, but the sights that come with it are adequate. I would always grab My Colt AR in a defensive situation, but I certainly wouldn't feel naked with the Ruger 9 MM.

 

[Garand]

I see both the .30 Carbine and the 9mm Carbines as sub 100 yd firearms. If your opponent is wearing body armour, depending on the distance, the .30 Carbine MAY penetrate (dependent on type of armour), the 9mm definitely won't. I've put about 3,000 cast and powder coated bullets through mine with a velocity average of 1,600 to 1,700 fps. Since 1945, there are more choices for .30 carbine ammo than just FMJ. With new steel magazines produced in Korea the efficiency of the .30 Carbine is definitely improved. As for durability the M1 has endured through may conflicts around the world, for years at a time, while I can't think of a single instance a 9mm PC carbine has been used in conflict. One advantage that I see for the 9mm PC Carbines are the variety of mag pouches that are available, you don't see that for the .30 Carbine.

 

[John in AR]

Fwiw, soft armor could be defeated with either caliber, if loaded specifically with that goal in mind. Of the 15 factory 9mm loads I've recently clocked thru the 16" carbine, seven of them (roughly half) exceeded 1600 fps, four of those surpassed 1700 fps, and three exceeded 1800 fps. And these were all factory loads, four of them being +P and three at +P+ pressures.The fastest one was just +P, the solid copper 'Xtreme Defender' from Underwood and averaged 2284 fps from the carbine.

The .30 carbine will always beat it for top-end power, but either one could defeat soft armor if that was the goal.

 

[John in AR]

...while doing a Rob Pincus pistol class yesterday...

The class instructor sent me this pic from the class; I’m the one in the black shirt. He stole a line from a movie when he sent it: “I believe that bear was wearing people’s clothes”.

The smaller guy on my left is 6’1”; I sometimes forget what a semi-freakish oaf I am until someone shows me a picture.

 

[BigEd]

Hey John remember this one from PN IIRC?🤣

 

[John in AR]

I’d forgotten that one. 👨‍🌾