[andy]

against the most terribly efficient army the world has ever seen. And they have about ZERO ability with rifles, poor cover, etc. We are "training' a LOT of Bin Laden's with our bs in Iraq. those people regard negotiation as proof of weakness. A few thousand riflemen in the US, WHO KNEW WHAT TO DO, could bust up this country in a month. A hundred might be able to do so in a year.

 

[Aslan]

And they are losing every encounter....with the possible exception of car bombs (the driver loses there too) and IED's on the road side.

Every time they go against us with guns, they die.

They actually have plenty of excellent cover. Or haven't you been paying attention. That's one of the factors that is critical in MOUT, is that everyone has lots of available cover.

:devil:

 

[Garand]

Given you lack of tactical knowledge, you obviously aren't one of those skilled people.

 

[RIKA]

Driving an explosive filled car up to a target and setting it off isn't tactics but stupidity. If you worship these people so much why don't you join them.

RIKA

 

[DJetAce]

During the Vietmien war (with France doing the fighting) there was a group of German ex-nazi's who headed up an anti-terrorist unit. Unlike what we do today in Iraq, they would tie up known simpithizers to the fronts of their tanks and armored cars when traveling from village to village and thus discouraging ambushes.

Or of course, good old pure nazis would just shoot 10 civilians for every soldier killed (Sunni's if they were in Iraq.)

Now THAT would send a message. No it won't happen. But our military is playing with kids gloves and still kicking the <font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font> out of them. If we really wanted to be bad asses we could in spades.

That shows why those here with SHTF dreams wouldn't last a minute in a REAL SHTF.

 

[krept]

i don't see anything about worsip there. US is bombing trackhoes and other construction equipment, think they're using them to make car bombs? Hardly. They are being trained by the Fedayeen and Al Qaeda goons. Sure they are losing a bunch of guys but come on, this is hardly the waves of millions of russian fighters we trained against up till the 80s.

Aslan I'd agree with in a sense. The urban terrain factor is a tough one, of course we could level the place like the russians did Grozny (very similar situation there too). In rural areas, if the gmint was going after a militia no holds barred I belive it would be a lot easier than what's going on in iraq.

Admittedly, I'm not really into the militia thing or know much about going against sophisticated gear - but with NVGs, IR Imaging, good sleep, vast resourses, etc. the advantage is greatly on the gmints side as I see it. Throw the fact that (from my observations) some of the militia guys have more to lose (including a way of life) than the Iraqi rebels... lack of a fanatical religion, etc. I'm just not so sure US rebels would be that better off.

The local population in Iraq might not like what the rebel guys are doing, but to be sure... if they rat on them, they get done in ugly. Same thing in Chechnya. What would happen here? Locals that want assurances of power, clean water, their TV programs, fast food, good highways, etc. WILL side on with the government. The minute that a holed up militia starts offing the Joneses be sure that they'll start giving out info a lot more readily than the average Iraqi. Remember, these people were used to getting tortured for even speaking about Saddam OR not turning their neighbors for doing so. Here, we're used to freedom of speech, freedom of watching NASCAR drinking beer and eating potato chips. Current situation in Iraq isn't that much safer or threatening when you think about it.

maybe I'm missing the point. At least I'm trying to be constructive and think about this. If you guys just trade insults back and forth, it's like some silly schoolyard BS going back and forth.

It's not really that the Iraqi resistance is skilled, it's that they are determined, willing to sacrifice and are making do with crappy gear. If Russia and China were able to supply them with real weapons instead of the crap that gets smuggled in on camels, things would be a little different to be sure.

 

[andy]

bacause U r too gutless to fight, u ASSUME everyone

is, that's all. The Iraquis have no access to the sorts of damage that can easily be done to Big Brother HERE. for instance, ONE guy, 2 cases of flares, ONE night, a parachute and a stolen plane=10% of the economy GONE (ie, CA burned off of the map) 1 guy, 10 grocery stores a day, in a month, with one syringe= BILLIONS of $ of food ROTTING on the shelf and in the rr cars, cause NOBODY would be buying ANTHING that wasn't in a metal can. A few pcs of angle iron, in the center of RR Bridges=ALL rr shipping costs going up about 10x, meaning LOTS of stuff would no longer be profitable to make and ship. Hitting 4-5 power pumping stations per night, knocking holes in the big transformers, letting out the oil, which makes them fry themselves, would real QUICK put a lot of the US economy out of action. ditto holes in the bottoms of water towers, pipelines, etc, It would take 100 million men to guard all such targets, 24-7. A guy can always just silently shoot a guard or 2, and go ahead with the game plan. So you have to have 3-4 guys at each guard point, 24-7. The revenues to PAY for such guarding (or the losses if you DONT guard them) would run into trillions of $. The guys drafted for guard duty can't be doing OTHER(useful) work.

The CA assault rifle clown, killed 7 kids, with 75 rds from an AK. A little push cart of icecream could easily get 100+, given some slow acting surprise it it.

 

[Garand]

You talk about everyone else being gutless, yet you won't go to Iraq and take your chances as a contractor. The only coward, is the one calling everyone a coward!

If you want to act violent, go to Iraq and get your fill. more likely you'ld get your a** handed to you by some illiterant peasent! Your living the fantasy again, it might be time to check in with the doctor again!

 

[DJetAce]

No Garand they would capture him and 'chop-n-roll' goes his head. You can just imagine what all pleading he would do in front of the cameras just before they put the blade to him.

 

[Aslan]

is, that's all. The Iraquis have no access to the sorts of damage that can easily be done to Big Brother HERE. for instance, ONE guy, 2 cases of flares, ONE night, a parachute and a stolen plane=10% of the economy GONE (ie, CA burned off of the map) 1 guy, 10 grocery stores a day, in a month, with one syringe= BILLIONS of $ of food ROTTING on the shelf and in the rr cars, cause NOBODY would be buying ANTHING that wasn't in a metal can. A few pcs of angle iron, in the center of RR Bridges=ALL rr shipping costs going up about 10x, meaning LOTS of stuff would no longer be profitable to make and ship. Hitting 4-5 power pumping stations per night, knocking holes in the big transformers, letting out the oil, which makes them fry themselves, would real QUICK put a lot of the US economy out of action. ditto holes in the bottoms of water towers, pipelines, etc, It would take 100 million men to guard all such targets, 24-7. A guy can always just silently shoot a guard or 2, and go ahead with the game plan. So you have to have 3-4 guys at each guard point, 24-7. The revenues to PAY for such guarding (or the losses if you DONT guard them) would run into trillions of $. The guys drafted for guard duty can't be doing OTHER(useful) work.

The CA assault rifle clown, killed 7 kids, with 75 rds from an AK. A little push cart of icecream could easily get 100+, given some slow acting surprise it it.

Except your plan wouldn't work. For reasons stated many times before. Never mind the fact that you'd have EVERYONE, not just the government agencies, but EVERYONE gunning for you. Your best bet would be for the government to capture you.

You are simply stating that you want to be a terrorist and kill innocent people.

Big mistake on your part.

But, still just a sick fantasy.

:devil:

 

[Glenn Bartley]

Who knows, if the trouble starts here in the homeland, then maybe, just maybe the Klan will rise again, as will the Black Panthers, The Weathermen, The Militias, and so forth. And maybe, just maybe, they will have the same goal in mind, to rid this country of the scum who is screwing it. Of course you may also see martial law put into gear, and police round-ups of the not so usual suspects, and maybe iinterments like of the Japanese in WWII. None of this is really far fetched if it gets like Israel over here. I do not advocate illegal activity in any way, but if they styart blowing up school kids over here, who knows maybe the NRA will become one of the favorite all time American insitutions.

 

[Glenn Bartley]

Note how I am trying to bring this back to the subject and away from personal attacks, thank you...

 

[krept]

regardless of guts, my observations are that there are many good people in this country willing to help each other out because of their belief in the principles that the nation was founded upon.

look how cutthroat everyone was in afghanistan. look how the people in iraq would turn a blind eye when their neighbors are slaughtered. maybe it's true that we DO have more guts in that sense and would be more likely to band together rather than go nuts and riot, loot, pillage, etc. Of course that is something that would be more likely to happen in urban cores... i guess when you have an asshole of a place like iraq, there isn't much caching to do in the wasteland, unlike the US where you have the huge range of ecosystems, etc.

not that i admire them, but some of the toughest fighters are the chechens. those guys have been plugged by the #2 army for a long time, the russians are practically throwing everything they've got into the meat grinder. To us, it would be as if Mexico turned into Iraq and palestine at the same time. Still, they have hardly taken control of the local population, have they even instituted Sharia? If so, it's because there is a long history of Islam there, religious rule tends to oppress but build a more stable society.

I guess my ignorance about the effectiveness of organized militias is coming into play. it's hard to imagine US groups faring so much better than groups like the taliban, iraqis, chechens, etc. when they are directly involved in the real nasty <font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font> on a daily basis.

cheers

 

[gripper]

I'm gonna go off topic....someone here let ME know how to contact people seeking contractors in Iraq.No bull$hit.I'll go if I can.

 

[DJetAce]

haliburton has a web site among others.

http://www.oilcareer.org/iraq.htm

Is just one of them. Do a seach for 'haliburton Iraq jobs'

 

[Magnum88C]

What about jobs where you can go armed to the teeth, but the ROE aren't as sh!tty as they are for the military?

 

[RIKA]

What is ROE?

RIKA

 

[Aslan]

Rules of engagement.

 

[krept]

gripper I'm not for sure if this site allows pop ups but you have a PM

I also spoke to someone who is former Army who just completed blackwater training. This is part of what he said:

Doing PSD,DSS you are not in the sand like the military. You are in the embassay and then you are in the motorcades. and in buildings. You would not be outside much, so the weapons will be fairly clean. www.blackwaterusa.com has some more info if you are intrested. There were several ex, seals and SF that were in my graduating class. we started with 27 and graduated 17. I am just awaiting my clearence from the State Depatment, several other guys are still waiting as well, it is a long drawn out process, but I was told that I would be cleared very soon.

Apparently they are issuing G19s as the sidearm and M4s as primary. Note: this is not the same person as in the PM. Doesn't sound like they are doing offensive stuff at all, and with the insurance (at least for this) it sounds like the ROE are very restricted. Sounds like Blackwater is paying VERY good, can't remember the GS rate but it was way up there.

btw, I'm not involved in any of this stuff.

cheers

 

[Magnum88C]

Doesn't sound like they are doing offensive stuff at all, and with the insurance (at least for this) it sounds like the ROE are very restricted.

See, if I were to actually volunteer for duty over in a firezone like that, I'd want ROE (Rules Of Engagement) that let me go "bad dog" the moment I felt threatened.