[andy]

have to be PRACTICED with a lot, or that the ccw gun has to be practiced with a lot, because it's ALSO your stupid assumption that you are going to SURVIVE needing to fire more than a few rds, at more than a few FEET of range, without lots of LUCK. I'm FAR better than you, and I make NO such stupid assumptions. What you'd better worry about is how SLOW you are, and how FEEBLE your carry load is,not what you can hit (slowly) at 10m plus

 

[Hard Rock]

You are full of shit. That's it.

Mike

 

[RIKA]

have to be PRACTICED with a lot, or that the ccw gun has to be practiced with a lot, because it's ALSO your stupid assumption that you are going to SURVIVE needing to fire more than a few rds, at more than a few FEET of range, without lots of LUCK.

Experts who actually have been in gunfights say that you should practice with what you carry. It is also true that you don't know how many rounds you will fire and at what range. Practice, practice, practice. Luck plays a part in whatever we do. In short, you are FOS andy.

I'm FAR better than you, and I make NO such stupid assumptions.

That, my dear andy, is the STUPIDEST assumption that you can make. You have NO IDEA how good I am or anyone else here. Your inflated ego is legendary and sooo easy to puncture.

RIKA

 

[krept]

Maybe, but part of it is right. Luck has a lot to do with it... hence the saying that "fortune favors the prepared."

Practicing shooting from cover, practicing the reload, practicing at 15 yards all fall outside the parameters you outline with "couple rounds, couple feet."

The question becomes... how reliant on luck do you want to be?

 

[andy]

if you have cover, you don't HAVE to shoot, in normal times. HE has to flee, cause the cops ARE coming, and they AINT there to help HIM. All you have to do is prevent his outflaning your cover. so you basically never have to fire at a cover user's bobbing head, under such condtions. If you have to fire it's because he's EXPOSED. It takes a MUCH longer exposure, of your entire head, shoulder, arm, and gun, to be ready to fire, especially at the head. All you HAVE to do, really, is peek out with ONE eye, for .5 second. to be able to RELIABLY hit a head, you have to expose 10x as much of yourself, for 2-3x as long. dumb move.

 

[Aslan]

I have been shot at during 'normal times' - you clearly have not. You talk in generalities as if they were absolutes.

If you have cover. He may or may not have to flee - why are the cops coming? who called them? what's their response time?

Lot's of variables.

If you want to trust your survival to the fear of the cops arriving being a deterrant, good for you.

:devil:

 

[krept]

if you have cover, you don't HAVE to shoot, in normal times.

Ahh but see... is there ever a normal shooting? One reason I'd be behind cover is because some MOFO is coming at me and doesn't care about HIS cover. What if I'm with my preg. wife and running isn't an option? Never a normal situation I can think of... don't want to rely on luck if I can avoid it.

cheers

 

[andy]

the stats and everyone's experience says I'm RIGHT, mikey. 90+% of the time, you never have to hit anyone. 90% of the times that you DO, it will be at 10 ft or less. Half of the time when you have to fire, it will be at 6 FT or less. Just because YOU are too lazy and stupid to do the research doesn't mean that EVERYONE is as lame as you are.

 

[andy]

it's STUPID to worry about the 1%, and be INFERIOR at the 99%, bud.

 

[andy]

80% of the 280 GUN-armed, 3 time loser whackos that the NYPD Stakeout unit confronted gave up, rather than risk a shootout. 70% of those YOU confront will have no GUN. You'd better NOT shoot somebody who only has a knife, beyond about 10 ft. Draw, yes, FIRE, no. If he has NO gun, and you are a KNOWN martial artist, big, etc, you can't fire at ALL.

 

[Aslan]

80% of the 280 GUN-armed, 3 time loser whackos that the NYPD Stakeout unit confronted gave up, rather than risk a shootout. 70% of those YOU confront will have no GUN. You'd better NOT shoot somebody who only has a knife, beyond about 10 ft. Draw, yes, FIRE, no. If he has NO gun, and you are a KNOWN martial artist, big, etc, you can't fire at ALL.

Consult your local laws before taking Andy's word on what you can and cannot do legally.

The legally accepted distance is 21ft or less, at least in this state. (check your own state's laws). This is based on the numerous studies performed, and is that standard that the police departments use. (Kinda hard to be prosecuted for following the same guidelines as the cops...)

If a reasonable person would be in fear for their life, then chances are it would be ok to shoot, even if they don't have a gun and you are all the things Andy is claiming prevent you from shooting. BUT, you have the responsibility for knowing the laws that apply in your location.

Take a CCW class, most of them cover all this stuff very well. Cuts out having to wade through bad or mis-information on the internet.

:devil:

 

[Hard Ball]

I wouldn't take GunKid's word on anything.

 

[Piemaster]

if you have cover, you don't HAVE to shoot, in normal times. HE has to flee, cause the cops ARE coming, and they AINT there to help HIM.

The cops aren't coming to help YOU either mr felon with a gun, it'd be back to the pen for you.

 

[krept]

I might have linebacker size and martial arts training, but no way I'm going to play with a skinny punk that's got a blade (much less a gun). They get a warning with the draw, they still advance, it shows they have lethal intentions. Fortunately, AZ has some pretty decent laws. My CCW instructor is buds with the guy at AZDPS that issues the permits and in the class she agreed, if a reasonable person is in fear of great bodily injury (knife to liver, bat to head, etc.) all bets are off. Unarmed, completely different ballgame.

But... getting cover between you and the tango is a great idea, even if it's just to get them to show their true intention. Therefore, in shooting, there is a good chance cover will be around. just MHO...

cheers

 

[DJetAce]

Stupekid never heard of the 21 foot rule. Just about all court certified expert witnesses on self defense know about that rule and how a knive welding attacker can move in on you in one second from that distance. Stupekid's advice on this is about as good as his POS Star and POSCAR wet dreams. He knows nothing about the subject. His IGNORACE is proven once again.

 

[mrostov]

It's a big desert and I have a shovel.

 

[Hard Ball]

Hmmmm John, weren't you earlier today denouncing stupud cops who carry .357 Magnums and practice with "wussy: .38 Special loads.

 

[krept]

It's a big desert and I have a shovel.

damn straight.

the problem is that some broke-dicks pull shit in front of everyone. Kinda risky to transport a POS, pick up the pieces, etc. without witnesses... unless, of course, you go in bad places at bad times. Even assuming you've got the right bag and can pick up the pieces, it's still tough to hide a spur of the moment defence, the way I see it. Thank GOD we live in a more free place than PRK, MA and NY. Not that I ever want to be in that position, at least here the legislature understands the right we have to defend ourselves and others a little bit better. Although... ain't like TX where they can shoot for stealing property.

hope we never have to go there...

cheers

 

[Coyote]

Consult your local laws before taking Andy's word on what you can and cannot do legally.

Consult your local laws before hitting andy with a brick. :twoguns:

 

[Stillwater]

Consult your local laws before hitting andy with a brick. :twoguns:

If you want to hurt NUTTY JOHN with a brick, don't hit him in the head -- his head is solid bone ... hit him in the ankle with the brick!