J David has 0 to say about my claim

I suppose it's time for a rebuttal

223 fan said:

that it's IMPOSSIBLE to shoot an attacker in the eye, 4x , with a .25 auto. If the eye was hit 4x, the last 3 were as he laid there on the floor, dropped by the first hit to the eyeball.

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Using the word 'impossible', is similar to using the word 'never'. It winds up being a short period of time.
If I weren't intimately involved with the incident that happened, I'd almost be amused at your lack of knowledge of shooting a firearm. A skilled person, shooting a decent semi auto , can fire a magazine full of ammo, in less than 2.5 seconds--- IN the X ring at 15 meters. That's 13 rounds, out of a Browning Hi Power. If you won't believe me, then start reading up on the SAS. In my case, a Beretta 950SB is a lot easier to manipulate, and consequently to fire rapidly. Do the math. With few exceptions, I clean it every day, and try to fire at least a mag through it once a month. It works, and is very reliable.
I started shooting handguns, before I was too old to hold one up by myself. Same for rifles. At one time, I was active in IPSIC, as well as a State Champion in the Florida Peace Officer's Association in PPC, as well as Regulation Bullseye. I competed in the National Rifle Matches at Perry, when I was fifteen years old. Thankfully, I had the mechanical skills necessary to stay alive, and the luck to pull it off.
We've all sat back and 'arm chair warriored' things to death. I suppose it is only natural to think about " what we would have done". I've done it EVERY DAY since that happened to me. Like my therapist--- yeah, that's right-- THERAPIST-- says to me, " Most people sit around and 'wonder' what they are capable of doing to someone else. We KNOW what we are capable of doing to someone else." I have spent thousands of dollars of my own money , and have gone as far as Texas, to find someone that could help me put my mind back on top of my shoulders--- sort of. Knowing I have killed, and am capable of killing is not something I ever wanted to have to do. I just hope I live long enough, to where my legacy is not that I killed someone in a stupid pawn shop. It is not what I'd like to be remembered for.
Everyone of us 'gun nuts' have sat around and daydreamed about the time when we would be called upon to use our 'superior' shooting skills to 'save the day'. We all fantasize about 'what ' will happen, and 'when' it will happen, and 'how' it will happen. We always come out the hero, with drinks and congratulations all around. It ain't that way in real life. I've had my fifteen minutes of 'fame', and my name and picture in the paper. Nothing would have pleased me more, than to have lived my life in obscurity.
Right on this forum, I've been called a murderer. Believe you me, this guy would NOT want to say that to my face. He also does not know ANYTHING about Florida's Fleeing Felon Laws. Otherwise, he would not have the stupidity to mention the FBI agent was wrong about 'offing' the Miami Shootout perpetrators. I would do most anything possible to have not gone through what I did. NO ONE knows what happened that day, except two people. One of them is not talking. Yeah, it's my word, against a dead man's. Also my word against forensic science--- which is 97% accurate. The facts and science backed up my story. If it were otherwise, I would have been charged with something. To suggest otherwise, is not a good thing to do.
I suggest anyone who is all 'that' interested, to apply , under the Freedom of Information Act, to get a copy of the Medical Examiner's Report, and the Police Reports of the incident. It happened on September 26th, 2000, at approximately 1:15 PM. The address was A-1 Pawn & Jewelry, 1925 S. E. Hwy 19 , Crystal River, Florida, 34429. The Fifth Circuit Medical Examiner's Office is in Leesburg, Florida.
The investigative detective was Det. Corey Sharp, of the Crystal River Police Dept. My complete name is James David Phillips. I would say that is enough information for anyone to track down whatever information that is public record.
For someone to imply it was murder, shows a couple of things. One, a total ignorance of the facts of the case. Two, a complete lack of class and taste. Also, they have left themselves open to a real good libel case for slander of character. Third, if they knew me personally, they would not make such statements.
The reason I have not been on this forum, and not replied for a long time to these vicious attacks on my character, is due to my wife having cancer. She fought, and beat breast cancer last year, only to have it re surface three weeks ago in the form of three tumors in her brain.
I hope Rich will excuse my attitude, and wondering of thought. As most decent people could understand, I'm having a hard time focusing on things at the current time, and dealing with idiots is especially taxing at the current time.
Thanks for your indulgence, and I wish everyone a good day.

J. David
[email protected]

Here's the quote EXACTLY from Dave's post:

I knew using a sub caliber firearm center mass would be a joke, so I pulled it up in front of my right eye, while thumbing back the hammer. When he realized what was about to happen, his eyes became REAL large. That was what I aimed for, his left eye. I only thought I'd fired about two or three times, but in reality I fired five rounds. That was a surprise to me when they told me that.
I hit him four times in the left eye, and the other round was taken into one of his hands, and went through my front office door fifteen feet behind him. The door is a steel cased door, and the bullet penetrated all the way through, out into the parking lot.
Two of the four bullets that went into his head penetrated all the way through, and fell spent, on the ground ten feet behind him. The last two bounced around in his head, one lodging in the upper cervical region of his spine, and the other in his grey matter. He dropped like a brick, and made a lot of back and forth motions on the floor, like someone having a seizure. Yeah, I guess it 'was' a seizure.

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I don't see anywhere in that post where he stated that it took place in 3/4 of a second, do you? Read it again. How long does it take from the time someone sees a gun pointing at his eyesocket to raise his hand to catch a bullet in the hand? How fast can you pull the trigger on a semi-auto when you are in overdrive fighting for your life? Dave had the gun in his right hand, his left hand on the sword and/or the hands/arms of the bad guy and puts the bullets into the left eye. That was the side of the perp closest to his right hand, so at MOST that eyeball was maybe a foot away from the end of the barrel. Even if that head reacted backwards at the first shot (which wouldn't be all that much from such a small caliber projectile), the eyeball was still well within range and an easy target for the subsequent shots. The head would have had to turn nearly 90 degrees to move the eyesocket to where it could not be hit by the later shots fired. If it was moved directly BACKWARDS by the shots, it still would not make the target hard to hit.

Anyone firing a Beretta .25 knows that recoil is minimal, so there is NO problem whatsoever putting all those shots into a golf ball. Try it. Get a melon that has about the mass of a head and draw a two inch diameter target on it. Then fire a .25 caliber handgun at it from 1 foot away and see if you can duplicate this "impossible" feat.

Dave didn't say it only took 3/4 of a second to fire those shots. In reality he didn't even know how many shots he had fired, much less how long it took. I am certain his time sense was completely out the window at that point. He is also an expert pistol shot and I have seen the trophies and awards he has to prove it. So what is all that tough about what he did?

So, Andy, someone in your book is lying if you say they said something that they didn't actually say, or does something that you have never done? So please, lying is when someone states something that is not true, not if someone states something that you don't understand nor agree with.

Two things.

First, I also missed the "3/4 second" reference in J David's post; if it was there.

Second, even if he DID make that claim... Four shots means three 'split' times from between the first and fourth shots. Three splits over 3/4 second is .25 second split times; simple math.

And you yourself have said:

andy said:

My idea of controling a powerful defensive pistol is .17 second splits, on repeat hits to the 10" chest circle, at 6 ft, one handed,or at 10ft,both hands on the gun.

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(From the a thread in the "Handguns" section.)

So you say it can be done with a "powerful" pistol, on a "ten inch" target, at "six feet", "one handed" with ".17 second splits". (Your words.)

But you now say it can't be done with a single-action auto in .25acp at contact distance, at a 47% slower speed (.17 vs .25 second splits)...?

And before we get into the "10-inch versus eyeball" target size debate, consider this. Figure his barrel was two inches from the eyesocket, and the eye is 1 1/2" inches (approx) in diameter. That's the equivalent of a 90" target at 10 feet. [1.5 / 2 x 120] A 10" diameter target has 78.5 square inches of target area; a 90" diameter target has 6,361; making it more than 80 times as big a target.

Heck, let's say the attacker's got tiny eye sockets; just 1" in diameter. That's still the equivalent of a target 60" in diameter at ten feet. (Or 2,827 square inches of target; still 36 times[/i] larger than the target you list.)


So we've got a similar-functioning weapon action (SA auto), in a MUCH less-recoiling caliber, firing 47% slower, at a target that's at least36 TIMES larger (really more like 80 times larger), than what you yourself say your "idea of control" is.

Or saying it without the number clutter: Firing a weapon with an almost identical action, with a MUCH less recoiling round, shooting MUCH slower, at a MUCH larger target.

And yet you say it's impossible...?

Thanks so very much

I'm sitting in the doctor's office, waiting for Jane to finish her radiation treatment, so thought I'd check back on the site, and see if I garnered any responses. Guess I did.
Yep, back before my little 'incident', I too had doubts about what people could, and could not do with a firearm--- especially a mouse gun. I've taught over the years, more than 5500 people in the safe use of a handgun, and ALWAYS told them, I'd rather have a large rock than a .25 in my hand. I don't tell them that anymore. Point of impact is everything, not caliber. Yep, a .45 is better than a .25. That is a simple mathematical exercise--- however, a .25 in the hand is a whole lot better than the .45 in the gun safe.
Basically, that is the situation I found myself in that day, and utilized what I had. Luckily, it came out the way it did. Looks like I might live long enough to see 'the rest of the story'.
Thanks very much for the kind words, and support. I realize people who 'haven't been there', simply 'haven't been there'. Nothing to their detriment, as I sincerely hope no one ever has to go through what I've done. It is not pleasant. Yeah, people say I did the 'right' thing, and I ' did society a favor', and blah, blah, blah. However, they aren't the one that pulled the trigger, and deal with the aftermath. Most people try to be kind, and understanding, as most people 'are' kind and understanding.
But, there are always the ones that think they are being 'cute', stirring the pot of hate and discontent. I KNOW, because I used to be the same kind of person. Anyone that has access to the internet, can see how my posts were on rec.guns before I was hurt, and after. There's a world of difference. The way I treated, and wrote about Clint McKee, of Fulton Armory, was damn near criminal. Guess what? When I was hurt, he was one of the first people to ask if there's anything he could do. Amazing. We are now fairly good friends, and communicate on a pretty regular basis. I was totally wrong about him, and am glad I can write that.
The idiot on this forum that has written about me, obviously does not know me, and probably would not like me. That's ok, as it takes all kinds. Where there is black, there is also white. Where there is sweet, there is also sour. Where there is good, there is also evil. I KNOW what it is like to have someone after me, with ill intent. Lately, I've been trying to live my life in such a manner, that no one is 'after' me with ill intent. Everything on the internet is traceable. Everything. Anyone that is stupid enough to want to start a 'war', someday might end up paying a penalty. Believe me, those penalties hurt. I would suggest he tone down his accusations, and demeanor before someone starts taking him seriously. It's just too easy to track someone down in this day and time. He reminds me of what we call ' CB Rambos' on the open road. I drive a semi for a living. There are always the 'rough, tough talking' guys on the radio, that do the same thing in voice, that the idiot is doing in print. Ok, no big deal. They always have to pull over sometime to pee. Guess what? Sometimes they find themselves with company that they do not want. No matter how angry some people are, they are quite capable of running into others that are more angry. I believe the trick in life, is just not to be angry, and especially try not to make others more angry than they already are. After some of the things that have happened to me in my recent life, I'm angry.
Two of my very closest friends are Rich, and his bride. They have been more supportive over the years than I can ever say, and I don't believe there's anything I would not do for them. Maybe , if the idiot really, really, really tries---- someday he 'might' be fortunate enough to have friends like them. But, until he changes his tune, he has a lot better chance of being a target.
Thanks guys,

J David