J David has 0 to say about my claim

9216 Views 70 Replies 16 Participants Last post by brass hammer, Aug 8, 2004

andy

Discussion Starter · May 26, 2004

that it's IMPOSSIBLE to shoot an attacker in the eye, 4x , with a .25 auto. If the eye was hit 4x, the last 3 were as he laid there on the floor, dropped by the first hit to the eyeball.

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Rich Z

· #41 · Jul 24, 2004

223 fan said:
like I SAID, u r a liar. The FIRST 25, having "penetrated all the way thru his skull", dropped him like a ROCK, so you DIDN'T put 3 more rds into his eye socket, UNLESS you did so as he lay there on the floor (which WOULD be an act of murder).

And you, sir, have a reading comprehension problem:

I hit him four times in the left eye, and the other round was taken into one of his hands, and went through my front office door fifteen feet behind him. The door is a steel cased door, and the bullet penetrated all the way through, out into the parking lot.
Two of the four bullets that went into his head penetrated all the way through, and fell spent, on the ground ten feet behind him. The last two bounced around in his head, one lodging in the upper cervical region of his spine, and the other in his grey matter. He dropped like a brick, and made a lot of back and forth motions on the floor, like someone having a seizure. Yeah, I guess it 'was' a seizure.

Show me where it says the bad guy dropped like a brick after the FIRST shot, as you are claiming? The way I read this was that the guy dropped after Dave unloaded the clip, which is probably a much more realistic scenario than the guy dropping immediately from a single strike with a .25ACP projectile.

Besides, why do nearly all defensive classes teach a double tap? I mean, why bother when the perp has already bounced off of the floor at the first shot? Some people advocate two shots to the chest and a followup to the head. Why bother with those last two shots if everyone hits the floor at the first shot?

How many people have you said you have shot, 223 fan? I forget.

Stillwater

· #42 · Jul 24, 2004

Rich:
You should understand something. J. David has survived an up front and close gunfight.

This gives him stature in MELVIN'S eyes. It is a stature that MELVIN covets. If MELVIN can't have the stature, he will tear at the person that has survived the encounter.

I think Mr. David is to be admired for putting one of MELVIN'S prison buddies six feet under. My hat is off to him.

J. David

· #43 · Jul 29, 2004

Thanks, Bill

Thanks for the nice remarks, Bill. Believe me, I wish I could give my 'status' to Melvin, or whatever the pukes name is. He's welcome to it. It is NOTHING like I ever would have imagined, and would certainly not want it, now that I've been there.
As for him, about all I can say , is that he wants to keep writing me as a murderer, well I guess that is his perogative. However, it totally flies against scientific forensic facts, as well as my story. He appears to be the only one that just doesn't 'get it'.
I wonder if he wears his pants with the underwear up or down? I bet his pants go South in a hurry in the joint

Thanks again, guys,

J David

Dakota

· #44 · Jul 30, 2004

J David

Melvin AKA Gunkid is very jealous and envious of anyone that has actually had a taste of life or death,...hell for that matter he is intimidated by anyone who calls his bluffs and BS that he spreads across the net,...he is a waste of bandwidth and fresh air.If the US even did emissions tests on its populus Melvin would fail hands down,...he is a convicted felon that hates the fact that he can not have half of the life we do.

Melvin is and always will be internet BS and nothing more because he WILL NEVER FACE one of us like a man should,...he is to used to turning around for men in prison.

Melvin is a coward and a LIAR

andy

Discussion Starter · #45 · Jul 30, 2004

and YOU are scared to come meet me,punk.

Stillwater

· #46 · Jul 30, 2004

MELVIN and his blustering ... It's an act, an OLD ACT ...

andy said:
and YOU are scared to come meet me,punk.

MELVIN, your not going to do anything to anybody. Everybody out here realizes that you are just blowing smoke. You're are either blowing smoke and hot air, or are having BRAIN FARTS. That is all that INTERNET HEMMORHOIDS like you do.

You have no courage melvin. You are a stone cold COWARD. we all know it, so you blustering means nothing, because we know you would ROLL OVER AND PEE ON YOURSELF LIKE A SCARED PUPPY, if someone ever did confront you.

Sorry MELVIN, we know you too well to believe any of your bluster. But, you can go ahead and do it, if it makes you feel good.

Stillwater

· #47 · Jul 30, 2004

J. David said:
<snip>

I wonder if he wears his pants with the underwear up or down? I bet his pants go South in a hurry in the joint
Thanks again, guys,

J David

If JOHN MELVIN DAVIS ever did wear underwear, he would wear them down, so he could clear the decks for action quicker.

HEY CONVICT, did BUBBA let you be his private BITCH-BOY while you were in prison, or did he rent you out? As for me, I think Bubba rented you out to all comers.

John in AR

· #48 · Jul 30, 2004

John in AR said:
...Four shots means three 'split' times from between the first and fourth shots. Three splits over 3/4 second is .25 second split times; simple math.

And you yourself have said:

andy said:

Originally Posted by andy
My idea of controling a powerful defensive pistol is .17 second splits, on repeat hits to the 10" chest circle, at 6 ft, one handed,or at 10ft,both hands on the gun.

Click to expand...

(From the a thread in the "Handguns" section.)

So you say it can be done with a "powerful" pistol, on a "ten inch" target, at "six feet", "one handed" with ".17 second splits". (Your words.)

But you now say it can't be done with a single-action auto in .25acp at contact distance, at a 47% slower speed (.17 vs .25 second splits)...?

And before we get into the "10-inch versus eyeball" target size debate, consider this. Figure his barrel was two inches from the eyesocket, and the eye is 1 1/2" inches (approx) in diameter. That's the equivalent of a 90" target at 10 feet. [1.5 / 2 x 120] A 10" diameter target has 78.5 square inches of target area; a 90" diameter target has 6,361; making it more than 80 times as big a target.

Heck, let's say the attacker's got tiny eye sockets; just 1" in diameter. That's still the equivalent of a target 60" in diameter at ten feet. (Or 2,827 square inches of target; still 36 times[/i] larger than the target you list.)

So we've got a similar-functioning weapon action (SA auto), in a MUCH less-recoiling caliber, firing 47% slower, at a target that's at least36 TIMES larger (really more like 80 times larger), than what you yourself say your "idea of control" is.

Or saying it without the number clutter: Firing a weapon with an almost identical action, with a MUCH less recoiling round, shooting MUCH slower, at a MUCH larger target.

And yet you say it's impossible...?

I ask again.. What's wrong with my math?

The claimed .17-second splits mean 0.42 seconds from the firing of the first shot to the firing of the last; less than half a second, using times you say are doable even with a "powerful" handgun, one-handed. This guy was using a .25 auto.

"Locked together" as they were grappling, the bad guy's not going to be down "dead on the floor", less than a half-second later.

And I've already covered the 'targe-size relative to distance' issue above.

So either it's possible, which means the story could be true; or it's impossible, which means .17-second splits are just that - impossible.

As you say, "Can't have it both ways".

andy

Discussion Starter · #49 · Aug 1, 2004

OK, he'd STILL drop 3/4 of the way to the floor in .51 second, and WHO says that THIS BOZO can get .17 second splits, hmm? He KNOWS he's got a disgruntled wannabe gun buyer hanging around, he LEAVES his Glock laying around,he is charged by a guy with a sword, and FORGETS he's carrying a .25, but SUDDENLY he's a Master shottist?

I shoot you ONCE in the eyesocket, you are dropping like a ROCK. Now maybe you CLAIM you can hit 1" circles, at ANY range, while they are falling at the rate of 6 fps? BS, the guy's an effing LIAR.

Clint Boyer

· #50 · Aug 1, 2004

You just don't get it do you DUMBSH!T.

They were in a death grip! You don't just let go while your shooting (yes TWO o's).

Rich Z

· #51 · Aug 1, 2004

Andy, exactly how many people have you shot to know exactly how quickly a person will drop after being shot in exactly the same circumstances? You seem to know exactly how all people will react when being shot, so from what experience base are you drawing from? How many other first hand experiences have you heard of that are similar that you are basing your decisions on? Do you think that assailant might have been on drugs? Do you think that might have made a difference in how he would react?

Heck, show me even one instance where a self defense training exercise recommends only firing one shot at an assailant claiming that the target will drop like a rock from that one shot. Why do they recommend at least double taps or more? DO you think there is a reason for this recommendation? If people dropped like a rock, without fail, from a single shot, then why would the additional shots be recommended?

I have been to Dave's place and seen the shooting trophies and certificates he has. He is VERY capable with a handgun. I firmly believe that him being able to fire 4 shots into the eyesocket of some guy he is grappling with at arm's length (at most) away would be well within his capabilities. I am actually surprised that he didn't shove the gun into the eyesocket as well for good measure.

As far as him being caught with his pants down when he was attacked, well heck, I guess you were always at the ready when those dogs came around, eh? Dave was at his place of business and people come into the shop all day long, day in and day out, without incidence. He didn't go out walking down the street looking for trouble. He did not EXPECT to get attacked. With people, sometimes things are quite different then when dealing with dogs. The stress of being attacked by a sword wielding human being is likely quite different from being charged by barking dogs, I would guess. But maybe if a dog happened to walk into your house and suddenly attack you, maybe your reactions would be quite different, hmmm?

So yes, Murphy's Law certainly had a hand in this situation. If Dave had been able to lay his hand on his Glock, the story would have been much different. But I'll bet he doesn't have a .25 Beretta outside of easy reach.....

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Stillwater

· #52 · Aug 1, 2004

andy said:
OK, he'd STILL drop 3/4 of the way to the floor in .51 second, and WHO says that THIS BOZO can get .17 second splits, hmm? He KNOWS he's got a disgruntled wannabe gun buyer hanging around, he LEAVES his Glock laying around,he is charged by a guy with a sword, and FORGETS he's carrying a .25, but SUDDENLY he's a Master shottist?

I shoot you ONCE in the eyesocket, you are dropping like a ROCK. Now maybe you CLAIM you can hit 1" circles, at ANY range, while they are falling at the rate of 6 fps? BS, the guy's an effing LIAR.

You are never going to understand anything MELVIN, why, it is because you are an ex-convict and automatically take the criminal's side of the equation. You are revealing more of the hideous inside of your mental processes.

And, Rich is starting to look just as bad as you, MELVIN, because he is a post whore, for wanting all of the traffic, an idiot like JOHN MELVIN DAVIS generates. It's money in your pocket, isn't it Rich. Come on Rich, tell the truth.

Then Rich lets MELVIN, try to destroy a man that bested a criminal in personal combat, a man that deserves out praise, not letting a stupid, damned criminal, tear his reputation down.

I think you're damned disgusting for allowing this to happen Rich!

Now, come out here and talk about freedom of speech and all of the other liberal-ass platitudes that let you cover your assnatomy, while allowing this disgusting charade place.

Rich, you are begining to be beneath contempt. If you don't like me saying this, lets let this be your personal problem. Go ahead Rich, kiss MELVIN'S ex-convict butt again, as you count the posts on your forum. While you're counting posts, count this one too!

And, Rich, if you want to ban me over ripping your butt over being a post whore, and protecting MELVIN, I will consider it a BADGE OF HONOR! And what will it make you look like?

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Rich Z

· #53 · Aug 1, 2004

Quote from Bill Stillwater:

And, Rich is starting to look just as bad as you, MELVIN, because he is a post whore, for wanting all of the traffic, an idiot like JOHN MELVIN DAVIS generates. It's money in your pocket, isn't it Rich. Come on Rich, tell the truth.

Then Rich lets MELVIN, try to destroy a man that bested a criminal in personal combat, a man that deserves out praise, not letting a stupid, damned criminal, tear his reputation down.

I think you're damned disgusting for allowing this to happen Rich!

Now, come out here and talk about freedom of speech and all of the other liberal-ass platitudes that let you cover your assnatomy, while allowing this disgusting charade place.

Rich, you are begining to be beneath contempt. If you don't like me saying this, lets let this be your personal problem. Go ahead Rich, kiss MELVIN'S ex-convict butt again, as you count the posts on your forum. While you're counting posts, count this one too!

How do you figure this, Bill? I don't make a dime off of this site. Not one single solitary penny. The few banner ads I have here are being run for FREE. I don't get a penny off of them. This site comes completely out of my pocket. How much did YOU pay to be here, Bill?

So just what is your beef anyway? If you don't like the way this site is run, nor the people on it, then just go away. Pretty simple to understand, now isn't it? You can collect the money you paid to be here at the door on your way out....

From what I can determine, YOU have a gunkid fetish. And that, bud, is not my problem, it is yours. You really need to get a life.

Matter of fact, I have a very difficult time recalling anything you have posted here that was in any form positive or helpful and NOT an attack on someone else. You have tried everything you can think of to get me to ban 223 fan/andy, and they failed, so now the plan is to attack me directly, eh? So tell me, just who the heck needs YOU here? You were just frothing at the mouth hoping I would allow you to be a moderator here, now weren't you? Not a chance, bud. Not a chance. One thing I have learned in the years of running message boards is to recognize a pathologically destructive personality.

BTW, Dave knows where I stand with him. Go ahead, ask him.

So anyway, since you brought this up, let me lay the law down to YOU right here and right now. If you attack anyone on this site, either directly, via innuendo, or by implication, you are gone. If you want to contribute to this site and be helpful to the other people participating here, then do so, but not in the manner in which you have been doing so.

So go ahead, I am awaiting the expected derogatory laced response to this post.......

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Stillwater

· #54 · Aug 1, 2004

Rich Z said:
Quote from Bill Stillwater:

How do you figure this, Bill? I don't make a dime off of this site. Not one single solitary penny. The few banner ads I have here are being run for FREE. I don't get a penny off of them. This site comes completely out of my pocket. How much did YOU pay to be here, Bill?

How much do I pay to be here? They same amount that every one else pays. Is that a problem? And I don't think that you set this website up out of the goodness of your heart. There are other forces at play here, EGO for one!

However, if you did, then my hat is off to you, but, treat everybody equally and decently.

Stop JOHN MELVIN DAVIS'S attacks on a man who defended his life, and won, in mortal combat. Is that too much to ask, of your worshipfullness?

So just what is your beef anyway?

If you can't tell what my beef is, you must have a reading comprehension problem.

The beef I have with you is your support for the EX-CONVICT JOHN MELVIN DAVIS.

A man had to engage a criminal in deadly combat, this man killed the criminal and you won't head off MELVIN'S attacking him.

What does that say about you Rich?

I will tell you something else that says a lot about you! You ignored everything I said in my post. So you do not debate -- you attack. Very well, and what does that say about you?

If you don't like the way this site is run, nor the people on it, then just go away. Pretty simple to understand, now isn't it? You can collect the money you paid to be here at the door on your way out....

Your insipid attack in the above paragraph also speaks volumes about your frame of reference.

Except for MELVIN, I think there are a great bunch of people on this forum. You, may make me change my mind about you. Why? because I believe your priorities are misplaced.

From what I can determine, YOU have a gunkid fetish. And that, bud, is not my problem, it is yours. You really need to get a life.

Ah, here we go -- if you can't debate, attack a persons heterosexual sexuality. What does that say about you Rich?

Matter of fact, I have a very difficult time recalling anything you have posted here that was in any form positive or helpful and NOT an attack on someone else.

And I suppose the drivel that MELVIN has posted is Wisdom from the Mount On High? Is that what you think?

You have tried everything you can think of to get me to ban 223 fan/andy, and they failed, so now the plan is to attack me directly, eh?

For all that read this, that allegation is an outright lie.

Where have I asked you to ban him? All I have done is object to the content of his idiotic posts. That IS right isn't it?

So what is the REAL problem Rich?

So tell me, just who the heck needs YOU here? You were just frothing at the mouth hoping I would allow you to be a moderator here, now weren't you? Not a chance, bud. Not a chance.

Frothing at the mouth? not hardly, not even a chance! I wouldn't want to be a moderator on a board that supports destructive EX-CONVICTS. So get that squared away in your head right now.

Being a moderator, on a board that coddles criminals, is not a position that accrues any respect.

I said I would help you, the operative word is help. However I don't think you want to help yourself.

One thing I have learned in the years of running message boards is to recognize a pathologically destructive personality.

First of all, unless you are a psychiatrist, or a Ph.D. Psychologist, you aren't qualified to make that diagnosis.

However, you have allowed a destructive Sociopath (this diagnosis from a psychiatrist, whom I let read MELVIN'S posts) one your board, to attack good people.

You have allowed the EX-CONVICT JOHN MELVIN DAVIS, to attack a man who had to defend his life against another ANTISOCIAL CRIMINAL.

You have allowed JOHN MELVIN DAVIS to call a man, who defended his life, a murderer.

I have spent forty yearrs working in an Engineering environment. I have designed Spacecraft structures and payloads. A destructive person, I don't think so! For if I were, I would not have kept my job, and I wouldn't have been promoted as many times as I was. If you are destructive, you do not last long in Aerospace. Trust me on that.

BTW, Dave knows where I stand with him. Go ahead, ask him.

Oh, I am quiet sure that MELVIN knows where he stands with you. However, I am sure that MELVIN will respect your feelings, just as he has respected the law all of his life.

In other words, he will do as he damned well pleases. As MELVIN always has done.

So anyway, since you brought this up, let me lay the law down to YOU right here and right now.

Rich, you aren't laying down any law to me, that is in anyway different, than what you expect out of anyone else. Is that clear? I know something about the law too! You will not treat me any differently than you will anyone else.

If you attack anyone on this site, either directly, via innuendo, or by implication, you are gone.

I have only attacked the EX-CONVICT JOHN MELVIN DAVIS. And I will continue to point out the errors (crimes) he has committed. And, just as long as you do that to everybody else, including the EX-CONVICT JOHN MELVIN DAVIS, I don't have a problem with it. Just as long as you deal fairly with everybody. Which you have not done, up to this time.

If you want to contribute to this site and be helpful to the other people participating here, then do so, but not in the manner in which you have been doing so.

I have been helpful to others on this sight, except for the EX-CONVICT JOHN MELVIN DAVIS. I don't post drivel. I don't recycle posts that have been posted on fifty or more sites that THE EX-CONVICT JOHN MELVIN DAVIS has been banned from. DAVIS is an unreconstructed INTERNET HEMMORHOID that needs to go back to prison. And I am, with other members of this forum, helping in that effort.

So, I guess that makes me out to be an unworthy person just because I have a dislike for CRIMINALS. Is that right RICH?

Curious people would like a direct answer to the above question. And, I will assure you that there are many curious people one this site. Probably, because I am instrumental in bringing many them here.

So go ahead, I am awaiting the expected derogatory laced response to this post.......

Gee Rich, what have I said that is derogatory? in fact I have pointed out in this post where you have been assumptive, and derogatory. So, if you wish -- because of this, ask me to leave and I will! Just email me!

If by saying you protect, and support, an EX-CONVICT is derogatory. Then I have said that. So, if you wish, because of this, -- ask me to leave and I will! Just email me!

If saying you must treat everybody equally, is derogatory. Then I have said that. So, if you wish, because of this, -- ask me to leave and I will! Just email me!

Rich, you need to recognize, that an opinion opposed to your's is not an attack -- these words are expressions of my opinion.

You need to Learn to debate with out attacking, yourself. Then you may earn back the respect your forum should deserve.

I don't like EX-CONVICTS consorting with law-abiding people. Apparently you do. This sentence is an expression of opinion, in debate, not an attack. If you can't realize that, then you may have a deeper seated personal problem.

I have never been arrested in my life, I have only been in a jail, to see what one looked like. A friend on LAPD gave me a tour. In fifty-two years of driving, I haven't hardly ever got a traffic ticket, three -- and I beat two in traffic court. All this while living in an area where the average is one traffic ticket a year, per driver.

I respect the law, even if I don't agree with the law. That may change because of governments attitude towads firearms.

I am a CITIZEN who legally owns firearms. I am not an EXCONVICT, ILLEGALLY IN POSSESION OF FIREARMS. And, unlike you, I will continue to my opposition to criminals, in possesion of firearms. Which of us, does that make the better citizen, RICH.

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Rich Z

· #55 · Aug 1, 2004

Rich, you need to recognize, that an opinion opposed to your's is not an attack -- these words are expressions of my opinion.

So the below are expressions of your opinion and not an attack, Bill?

And, Rich is starting to look just as bad as you, MELVIN, because he is a post whore, for wanting all of the traffic, an idiot like JOHN MELVIN DAVIS generates. It's money in your pocket, isn't it Rich. Come on Rich, tell the truth.

Then Rich lets MELVIN, try to destroy a man that bested a criminal in personal combat, a man that deserves out praise, not letting a stupid, damned criminal, tear his reputation down.

I think you're damned disgusting for allowing this to happen Rich!

Now, come out here and talk about freedom of speech and all of the other liberal-ass platitudes that let you cover your assnatomy, while allowing this disgusting charade place.

Rich, you are begining to be beneath contempt. If you don't like me saying this, lets let this be your personal problem. Go ahead Rich, kiss MELVIN'S ex-convict butt again, as you count the posts on your forum. While you're counting posts, count this one too!

And, Rich, if you want to ban me over ripping your butt over being a post whore, and protecting MELVIN, I will consider it a BADGE OF HONOR! And what will it make you look like?

No, I am not going to email you at all. I will ask you right here and now to leave. Got that? Don't bother to reply to this post, just be gone.

Stillwater

· #56 · Aug 1, 2004

BYE, BYE -- I am sorry that I pointed out so many of your personal problems, please do not accept my apology.

Aslan

· #57 · Aug 2, 2004

Clint Boyer said:
You just don't get it do you DUMBSH!T.

They were in a death grip! You don't just let go while your shooting (yes TWO o's).

Clint, you are just wasting your time. GK doesn't want to try and comprehend the situation. He's doing this for two reasons:

1) make the thread about him, and he is succeeding. That's why he has split his repsonses into two threads, though I was surprised he came back to this one.

2) he can't stand it when the "good" guys win. Life was unfair to him, and it wasn't his fault that he made bad choices. Therefore anyone who makes a different choice and succeeds doesn't deserve it. Besides, no one can have more skill then GK (see reason # 1)

:devil:

brass hammer

· #58 · Aug 2, 2004

Why In The Hell !

did i ever sink to this 'level' on a forum?

after reading above posts?

'ONLY A FOOL ARGUES THE FACTS!'

[can't we all just get a long neck] :laugh:

personally , the imput from ,stillwater , rich z , andy/.223fan, are all equal

IN MY SMALL VEIW OF THINGS!

[you can fire my ass too! it's won't be the first time , and i am fearless]

thanks.

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Magnum88C

· #59 · Aug 2, 2004

Don't forget that GoonKid idolizes criminals. Here is an example of a decent person putting a scumbag where he belonged -- in the gardening program at the local cementary.

Second thing is, GoonKid has PROVEN himself to be not only a criminal, but an abject coward and is shamed by a person who is enough of a MAN to not surrender, and actually defended his life.

J David: Two thumbs up!
GoonKid: two thumbs down.

RIKA

· #60 · Aug 2, 2004

When I read the argument between Rich and Stillwater this morning I was deeply saddened. The cause of the argument: goonkid. IMO it got too hot too quickly with two Alpha Males who absolutely wouldn't back down. I can see both points of view and will not take sides. Its not my place to do so.

Just want to make one point. We have all lost on this one. Goonkid is the winner and he is laughing out loud at all of us.

RIKA

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