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When Jeff was discussing putting the "minor caliber" handicap on the 223, for IPSC rifle shooting, I pointed out that Jeff had said that a .455 RIC had plenty of stopping power. It was a 255 gr bullet, at 650 fps out of that 3" barrel. That calculates to a 166 momentum factor. Well, a 20" 223 can readilyget a 69 gr hpbt to 3000 fps, and still have a 166 momentum left at nearly 200m. I Pointed this out, and asked why then, the 223 was so "inadequate". After all, it's obvious to anyone that it's far better to have a man not be stopped at 250m than not be stopped at axeswinging ranges. Jeff just glared at me. :)

Jeff's ALSO said that a 25 gr .17 cal bullet, at 2400 fps, or a 40 gr .22 bullet, at 2200 fps, would have enough power to both penetrate any practical body armor, AND still have adequate stopping power, by means of hydrostatic shock. 25 grs at 2400 fps is but a 60 momentum factor. a good 223 boattail still has THAT much momentum at 500 yds, man. it's still got 2200 fps at 300m+, too. So much for the 223's being "inadequate" for typical combat.
 

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from a proper weapon, the .223 is a good round. Nobody disputes that. From a 10" barrel, a .300 blackout outperforms your .223 in every way imaginable, and would be a far better choice. You like to mix things up in your discussions. You can't use your shorty as a good example, so you always resort to using a good .223 platform to justify your poor one.
 

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from a proper weapon, the .223 is a good round. Nobody disputes that.
This.

JMD - listen carefully: Nobody rational says the .223 isn't an adequate defensive caliber for most typical purposes. Back in the 60's and 70's, a lot of people did. But it's had decades of proven track record now. The 223, when loaded with an appropriate bullet and launched from an adequate barrel length, does fine. Nobody disputes this; almost ever. Why do you still feel a need to constantly argue this point, when there's nobody here saying otherwise?

The fact that Cooper didn't like it makes no difference to me. He didn't like double-stack guns, including the Browning P35; which was the gun that John Browning himself abandoned the 1911 for. Cooper was like most pontificating wannabe tyrants. It was his way, or your doing it wrong; and his errors and even hypocrisy were displayed more than once.
 

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Kind of like using .223 Remington performance out of a 24" barrel to justify using it in a 10"barrel.

BTW, JMD what are your current barrel specs rifling twist wise and brand or brands?

Bolt carrier specs?
 
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