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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
TELL us whether or not you can get any thing done with .22 unit, faster than you can do the same thing with the canned 223. :) What this MEANS, of course, is that you don't HAVE to practice much at all with 223, only with .22 unit. work on 10" gongs, to 75m, for snapshooting, and reserve the 223 mostly for longer range stuff. That typically means braced position slowfire, so there's very little need to practice it. It's kid stuff. once you know how to do it, there's very little need to keep doing it, in order to be able to do it "upon demand".

For instance, try reacting, raising rifle from low ready, double tapping 3 torsos at 25m, 5m apart. 3 seconds, for either caliber,(using iron sights) is pretty fair perfomance, if all hits are in the 10" circle of the A zone. 2.5 secs for same 6 hits= world class shooting, evenwith optical sights.
 

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I mainly do use the .22 unit now; probably 40- or 50-to-1 in favor of the .22LR, as far as number of rounds fired thru the gun.

Even with the .22 unit, I still almost always shoot it with the suppressor on, to keep the "feel" and handling of the gun constant.

The .22 without the suppressor would more closely simulate the blast of the .223 with suppressor, but at the cost of changing the gun's handling characteristics. IMO, keeping the "feel" of the gun constant is higher priority than keeping the "sound" constant. YMMV.


Since I put the small Leupold 1-4X scope on it, I rarely use the iron sights anymore. They're still use-able, since the scope's on a see-thru ARMS mount, but for longer shooting, the scope's more precise (cranked to 4X), and close-up, the scope's actually quicker to pick up than the irons (at 1X, where it's regularly set). The see-thru mount is really a "just in case" thing; to allow use of the irons if the scope should become damaged.

Really like that little scope; and no battery issues to worry about anymore.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
u KNOW scope's faster, as in average of several tries, different lighting, on a shooting timer, or you just THINK it is? With a v notch cut into the top of the luminous wing of peep sight, and epoxy 'ears" to catch the eye quickly, let you SEE more as the gun comes up,or as it traverses, irons are VERY fast indeed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I prefer the 2x7 compact, for a bit more precision, and still fast ENOUGH, on 2x. It's also a bit better for use as a substitue binocular. Duplex x hairs help in poor light, and serve as as much rangefinder as a short 223 can benefit-from.

When can comes off of most shorty AR's, the flashhider will go back on, and a big steel flashhider adds nearly as much wt as does an efficient, aluminum can.
 

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Confess to never timing the scope-vs-irons, but have used both a bunch, and done side-by-side tries with one vs the other. The scope (on low power) is definitely the quicker of the two, at least with my gun's standard peep-type AR sights.

I also like the duplex cross hairs - coarse outer lines for quick acquisition, and finer inner lines for more precision when time permits. Mine has Leupold's "Shotgun" reticle, which is just a slightly heavier duplex. Tried both shotgun and regular duplexes side-by-side in the store; the regular, with its finer lines, would allow for more precise long-range work, but the "shotgun" duplex version is much quicker to acquire (again, a side-by-side comparison thing), and being a duplex, still plenty precise for any distance I'm going to be shooting the CAR. Certainly more precise than my iron sights.

I'm at kind of a weird place with the CAR right now. With it set up as it is...:

- AAC quick-mount suppressor
- Otis grip cleaning kit
- .22 Ciener unit
- compact Leupold scope in see-thru mount
- Snap-on & -off rigid brass catcher
- plenty of mags,

I really don't have anything I'm just 'lusting' to have for it right now. Likely I'll eventually add a 3-point (or some such) sling, a replacement trigger and tritium iron sights, but right now, I'm very happy with it "as is".

That said, assuming the AWB does sunset, the first thing I'll want is some 30-round mags for the Ciener; I have full-cap and hi-cap mags for every auto I own except that.

(Never know when I may have to fight off a wave of rabid zombie squirrels... :uzi: :cool: )
 

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See, now you did it; you got me thinking about accessories. Was driving past a local police supply store last night, and went in & bought a new sling for the CAR.

Blackhawk "Swift" sling; never tried any of these newfangled "multi-point" or crossbody slings before. But I put it on the gun last night, and like it a lot. Even new and unfamiliar, it's better than the standard sling I've been using; hopefully it'll just get better the more I use it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I always cut at least one 30 rder to 20 rds. The 30 sticks out too far for practical field use, but it's nice for practice. It gets in the way of going prone,using bipod, doing "quick sling rolls", etc.

You'll DEFINETLY love the luminous sights, ambi safety, trigger job. As big as you are, you'll like a butt extention, and you'll be faster, from low ready, with a rearward extention of the pistol grip. I've always just used Bondo Car body putty, and wrapped it with black cloth tape, but Pachmahr or somedbody sells a larger pistol grip made out of rubber (or so I've read)

With the gun a bit shorter than "fitting' (butt in crook of elbow, first pad of finger falling natuarlly across the face of the trigger, gun handles faster. Need a TIMER to be able to notice all these little "twitches" of improvement, John. A NON-wobbly fit of upper to lower, handguard and stock ALSO help speed of aimed- hits, and so does a properly-made cheekpc. The latter should have two depressions. One on its side, for your cheekbone and the iron sights, one on top, for your chin and the scope.
 

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andy said:
...As big as you are, you'll like a butt extention...
So many lines come to mind.... :cool:

I'm somewhat larger than average; wear either a 48 or 50 long jacket and 38" shirt sleeves, but I actually prefer the shorter A1 length stock to the newer, longer A2 version, for this gun. On my "bolt clunkers" I like a somewhat longer stock, but compactness is one of the main reasons I like the CAR in the first place, and if I'm going to sacrifice that compactness, I'd rather sacrifice it to a longer barrel than a longer stock. Obviously, that's a subjective, personal thing. Year or two ago, I took off the collapsing stock & put on a fixed A1 length DSA metal stock, and really like it. It's more solid and more quiet than the telescoping stock, and strong as a truck.

The DSA stock meant I had to use the "fixed stock" version of the sling, instead of the "collapsible stock" version, but that worked out better anyway, as the fixed version is necessarily longer, which means it fits us "full-size" people better.

I've only messed with the sling for an hour or two, but I'm very impressed with it. It's one of those things like buying your first microwave oven or vcr; once you try it, you wonder why you put off getting one for so long.

(Yes, Rika, some of us are old enough to remember when microwaves & vcr's first came out. I was so 'cool', I even had an 8-track player in my Dodge Dart, and a white leisure suit. God help me, what was I thinking... :headbang: )
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
If u'd ever TRY things on a timer, u'd KNOW, instead of just guessing. Often, things FEEL faster, even tho they were actually SLOWER, because of wasted motion. You can run MANY times faster, around the block, and still get beaten to the other side by the guy who cuts across the block, ya know? Minimum motion is always fastest, even tho it can "feel" slower.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
with a(4-or-6-position) retractable stock, you can have the butt extention, and still have as much "compactness" as you've got now, and you can retract the stock, to allow for a thick winter coat, let kids-wife shoot the gun, etc.
 

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andy said:
work on 10" gongs, to 75m, for snapshooting, and reserve the 223 mostly for longer range stuff.
John,

How is the 10" gong constructed ... ie. what type steel, thickness, etc. for given caliber?

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
1/8"-3/16" thickness for .22lr, so it will jump when hit, 1/2"+ thick for 223 or .45, 1/4"-3/8" thick for 9mm. Just whatever stuff the scrapyd has. 8" or 12" is ok,just adjust the ranges accordingly. Get half links of chain from someplace that sells chain in bulk, from the scrap bucket. Weld 2 of them side by side, near the top rear of disk, and use a loop of wire or small chain to suspend the disk. Disks are the scrap from cutting holes in sheet, for industrial stuff, easy to find. Grind off any burrs, or they will turn the bullet frags back towards the shooter. once you crater them with 223, never use them for sub 10m pistol work, because frags are dangerous. Never shoot a smooth plate, centerfire pistol, closer than 5m, and never with 22 closer than 3m, and always wear eye protection when shooting.
 

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When younger, I once SERIOUSLY under-estimated the 5.56's penetration. Made up a 6"x8" rectangular "swinger" target out of 1/4" or 5/16" steel. Piece of 3/4" pipe welded along the top made a 'sleeve', thru which a piece of the re-bar frame passed, allowing the target to swing.

Shot it with my Olympic 'shorty' @ 50 yards, with Q3131A fmj. Missed, missed, missed... or so I thought. After ten rounds or so, I walked up on it and discovered holes thru the steel, pocked on both sides. The plate never even moved that I could tell; the bullets just zipped right through it.

It became a 100-yard .22LR target after that, which was handy. Any time there was no "clang" when I shot it, "the bullet must have gone thru one of the.223 holes.. :cool:
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
LOL. When first shooting wax .45 ACP'S with Arganbright, on his Khrondek timer, I expressed concearn that the 2" hole in the center of his thin sheet metal target, with a light bulb in its center, for the start signal, would result in broken bulb a lot. He laughed and said it almost never happened. I broke it twice that same day, and my times were way faster than he THOUGHT could be done, ccw and going Weaver. :)
 
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