jordan's bright
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On the “god BS” thing, I have no expectation of convincing anyone of anything, but do have a couple questions to pose.
The first is simply “do you believe there’s anything beyond the physical?” IE; anything beyond what we can detect with our five physical senses. Personally, I do; based on personal experience. In 1993, driving from Springfield MO to Little Rock on a Thursday night, I got into a car accident a little before midnight. The car ended up being drivable enough to make it slowly home, and instead of getting home around 2 am, I got there around 5:30 am. When I walked in the house, my wife was awake & waiting for me; saying that she’d woken up a little before midnight worried about me and couldn’t get back to sleep. Coincidence/happenstance, perhaps? Doubtful, as it’s never happened before or since in the nearly 37 years we’ve been together; the only time it did happen was that one night. Proof of any particular set of religious beliefs – Christianity/Buddhism/Islam/Hinduism, etc? No. But compelling evidence that there is/was some link between me & her that none of our five senses (sight, smell, touch, sound, taste) could have possibly initiated. I was hundreds of miles away and there were no phone calls or anything between us for several hours before the accident. So ‘something’. What that something is, I can’t explain, but to deny that it happened would be stupid and emotion-based rather than evidence-based.
On the broad concept of god or a creator, or however we want to phrase it, one concept that constantly comes up when I think about is simply the ‘one step backward’ concept. If I were to be adamantly opposed to the concept that some form of creator created humans, then okay, maybe humans simply evolved from an early (maybe even single-celled) creature millenia ago. But take one step back – where did that single-celled creature come from?
Okay, maybe it developed from some chemical process in the earth’s primordial soup millennia before that. But if that’s the case, where did the primordial soup come from?
Okay, maybe the primordial ooze was just residue from ‘the big bang’ millennia before that. Okay, great. But take one step back - what specifically was it that went "bang”?
Okay, maybe it doesn’t matter exactly “what” went bang – it just did. But whatever “it” was, it obviously existed. And if it existed, where did it come from..?
If a person honestly and unemotionally follows this inquiry constantly “one step further back”, it seems to leave no option other than indicating some form of original existence; and that ‘original existence’ by definition and by its very nature must be something beyond our ability to completely define or quantify.
JMD – one question. Do you believe that there is anything beyond the physical? Meaning beyond what can be detected by our five natural senses? Not anything about any particular religion or belief system, just the possibility of things existing that are beyond our power to sense in the physical world.
The first is simply “do you believe there’s anything beyond the physical?” IE; anything beyond what we can detect with our five physical senses. Personally, I do; based on personal experience. In 1993, driving from Springfield MO to Little Rock on a Thursday night, I got into a car accident a little before midnight. The car ended up being drivable enough to make it slowly home, and instead of getting home around 2 am, I got there around 5:30 am. When I walked in the house, my wife was awake & waiting for me; saying that she’d woken up a little before midnight worried about me and couldn’t get back to sleep. Coincidence/happenstance, perhaps? Doubtful, as it’s never happened before or since in the nearly 37 years we’ve been together; the only time it did happen was that one night. Proof of any particular set of religious beliefs – Christianity/Buddhism/Islam/Hinduism, etc? No. But compelling evidence that there is/was some link between me & her that none of our five senses (sight, smell, touch, sound, taste) could have possibly initiated. I was hundreds of miles away and there were no phone calls or anything between us for several hours before the accident. So ‘something’. What that something is, I can’t explain, but to deny that it happened would be stupid and emotion-based rather than evidence-based.
On the broad concept of god or a creator, or however we want to phrase it, one concept that constantly comes up when I think about is simply the ‘one step backward’ concept. If I were to be adamantly opposed to the concept that some form of creator created humans, then okay, maybe humans simply evolved from an early (maybe even single-celled) creature millenia ago. But take one step back – where did that single-celled creature come from?
Okay, maybe it developed from some chemical process in the earth’s primordial soup millennia before that. But if that’s the case, where did the primordial soup come from?
Okay, maybe the primordial ooze was just residue from ‘the big bang’ millennia before that. Okay, great. But take one step back - what specifically was it that went "bang”?
Okay, maybe it doesn’t matter exactly “what” went bang – it just did. But whatever “it” was, it obviously existed. And if it existed, where did it come from..?
If a person honestly and unemotionally follows this inquiry constantly “one step further back”, it seems to leave no option other than indicating some form of original existence; and that ‘original existence’ by definition and by its very nature must be something beyond our ability to completely define or quantify.
JMD – one question. Do you believe that there is anything beyond the physical? Meaning beyond what can be detected by our five natural senses? Not anything about any particular religion or belief system, just the possibility of things existing that are beyond our power to sense in the physical world.
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I'll just say a couple of general things
First I don't believe that no matter the actual methodology or time frame. This existence is not just a wonderful happenstance.
Second, without going into great details I've had my own personal experiences also.
Some not always pleasant and one fairly amusing.
First I don't believe that no matter the actual methodology or time frame. This existence is not just a wonderful happenstance.
Second, without going into great details I've had my own personal experiences also.
Some not always pleasant and one fairly amusing.
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7,279 Posts
Seriously, John - will we ever get more than drive-by-shouting followed by run-&-hiding...?
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He is on a time out…
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Ahhh... More 'sad but repetitive' behavior.
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Heard a Stevie Wonder song today that made me think of this thread. Fwiw, I do believe there are things whose existence can’t be denied, yet are simply beyond the ability of our five natural senses to detect or comprehend on their own. Some examples:
Thoughts – they’re absolutely real things (for most folks), but can’t be seen, heard, smelled, tasted, our touched.
Ultraviolet and Infrared light
Radio waves and microwaves
Magnetic and electromagnetic fields
Some ‘feelings’ – ever just ‘feel’ someone watching you? It can’t be quantified by our physical senses, but it’s something experienced by most people at one time or another.
Stevie Wonder's song "Superstition" has a line in it that roughly says, "When you believe in things that you don't understand, that's superstition." (Slight paraphrasing, but meaning is unchanged.)
I'd say that to think that anything I don't understand must not be real, is the pinnacle of arrogance, to the point of narcissistic megalomania. It's saying that "nothing real exists, that I don't understand", which is idiotic at best. It's saying that because I don't understand the details of a jet engine, believing in the existence of jet engines is superstition. And that's retarded.
Thoughts – they’re absolutely real things (for most folks), but can’t be seen, heard, smelled, tasted, our touched.
Ultraviolet and Infrared light
Radio waves and microwaves
Magnetic and electromagnetic fields
Some ‘feelings’ – ever just ‘feel’ someone watching you? It can’t be quantified by our physical senses, but it’s something experienced by most people at one time or another.
Stevie Wonder's song "Superstition" has a line in it that roughly says, "When you believe in things that you don't understand, that's superstition." (Slight paraphrasing, but meaning is unchanged.)
I'd say that to think that anything I don't understand must not be real, is the pinnacle of arrogance, to the point of narcissistic megalomania. It's saying that "nothing real exists, that I don't understand", which is idiotic at best. It's saying that because I don't understand the details of a jet engine, believing in the existence of jet engines is superstition. And that's retarded.
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