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You know, I have posted a few new threads last night and today. Some of them I thought may be viewed as pretty lame, and others viewed better by the rest of you. I was surprised to get some better feedback than I had expected. My point though is not whether or not I made some good posts, but if I and you have made any at all. There seemingly, to me anyhow, have been less threads and posts lately, and I can live with that but I don't know if the board can live without them. I am not suggesting that anyone starts posting like GK posted here, with new threads to answer already existing ones (as opposed to simply answering with a new post to the existing thread0, nor am I suggesting that anyone become the Grand Poobah know it all of Arms Locker and start posting a bunch of absolute balderdash either. What I am suggesting though is that we all start contributing a bit more, or at least regularly to these forums. I try to post new threads each time I visit the site. I try to visit daily (work permitting - for instance I will be staying in a hotel for at least the next 9 or 10 days for work and may not have PC access). I also try to read a bunch of other people's stuff and make replies - even if I am not particularly interested in that forum. I think we should all do this. Try to ad at least 2 or three new threads per day - the more the better. Write about your guns. make up a thread for each of them. Write about ammo you like, or hate. Write range reports when you go to the range or take your spouse, kids, friends or whomever with you. Write about guns you dream of having. Write about ballistics. Write about military guns. Write about Hunting adventures when you got the game, or missed shots. Write book reviews of shooting or hunting books. Write about the new trigger you put into your Ruger 10/22.

You have the idea, and I guess most of us do this, but we all need to do it to keep the site alive and to attract more users. The more people we keep interested or get interested the more people who will join the site. It will also be the more people who join our ranks and then vote gun issues in the elections (not just this year but every year).

This is a good site, with a good membership, lets keep it going and lets show everyone that it was not just made up primarily of simply one irate person with a nasty attitude, a phantasmagoric superiority complex, and a limited knowledge of guns. As a matter of fact, if he posted here and was nice wouldn't that be a plus, but I for one can live without the crap he doled out each and every day. Come to think of it his last few posts have been rather on the better side if I remember right, so maybe he wants back and will be better. I am willing to accept that, and I hope Rich would be since it is his site. The site is made up of and supported by its users, so lets start contributing as we should before it goes belly up... :cool:
 

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You're right. I'll try to do my part.

RIKA
 

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Glenn Bartley said:
Write about your guns. make up a thread for each of them. Write about ammo you like, or hate. Write range reports when you go to the range or take your spouse, kids, friends or whomever with you. Write about guns you dream of having. Write about ballistics. Write about military guns. Write about Hunting adventures when you got the game, or missed shots. Write book reviews of shooting or hunting books. Write about the new trigger you put into your Ruger 10/22.

I kinda figured everyone pretty much knew this stuff, so I don't make posts like that. Are you all really interested in this kind of info?
 

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Actually Magnum like you indicated,it's all "known" stuff.BUT,I for one forget on occasion.Ya know?

An occasional -start with the basics-reminder is sure can't hurt.Besides,the suggestions above can only help understand anothers points better.What I'm trying to say is that the more we know about each other the better we'll be able to understand what they type.ex.We know that 223 is nuts because we've all read his history.Therefore we take his posts w/a grain of salt.

I'll start.I'm actually an interstellar traveller whose mission is to scout this planet & determine if its suitable for conquest by my race.I'm disguised as a balding thirty-something guy whose interest in firearms disguises my research into determining how much resistance my people will encounter.Got it Earthling? :alien:
 

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41mag said:
I'm actually an interstellar traveller whose mission is to scout this planet & determine if its suitable for conquest by my race.I'm disguised as a balding thirty-something guy whose interest in firearms disguises my research into determining how much resistance my people will encounter. Got it Earthling? :alien:

Lots and lots and lots of it...unless you invade Europe.
 

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41mag said:
Actually Magnum like you indicated,it's all "known" stuff.BUT,I for one forget on occasion.Ya know?
OK, I just thought everyone would be bored with that kinda stuff.



I'll start.I'm actually an interstellar traveller whose mission is to scout this planet & determine if its suitable for conquest by my race.I'm disguised as a balding thirty-something guy whose interest in firearms disguises my research into determining how much resistance my people will encounter.Got it Earthling? :alien:
Damn it boy, you weren't supposed to blow your cover. Now you'll have to be reassimilated into the collective for proper reducation. :scatter:
 

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Magnum88C said:
Damn it boy, you weren't supposed to blow your cover. Now you'll have to be reassimilated into the collective for proper reducation. :scatter:
:roflmao1: :bow01: :alien:
 

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I seriously doubt that everyone here is an expert in everything. And some people may be reluctant to publicly admit that they don't know something that they feel is obvious to other people. So they don't ask those questions that they feel may be embarrassing for them to admit they don't know.

It is ignorance, but in a non malignant way. Not the stubborn ignorance of someone who refuses to listen and learn, but the type where someone just has not had exposure or interest, but things have changed and maybe the interest is now there, but not the exposure.

I have several 12 gauge shotguns, but most of the knowledge that is old hat to seasoned shotgunners is pure Greek to me. Not that I am stupid, but because my interest has been cursory, and things like chokes, shot sizes, reloading, performance of different shot types, etc, has not been of interest for me to spend the effort to try to search the web to find out about it. But someone knowledgeable writing about such things would be welcomed and worthwhile reading.

I am sure there are many instances such as this with other people here but in different categories.

Heck, I have always looked upon websites like this as a place for people to come to so they can learn as well as teach. But generally the teaching has to precede the learning for a site so survive. If there is no solid core of people willing to teach, the few people who come here and post questions, only to have them go unanswered will prove frustrating and discouraging. So people will leave to go elsewhere in search of their answers. With that in mind, I think having some basic primers posted, as well as just general experiences of people that have had learning experiences for themselves will prove helpful in putting out the welcome mat to let people know that there are answers to be found here.

But I know I am guilty of lack of participation here as much (or moreso) then anyone else here. Time is always an issue, so finding time to post long informative threads or replies can many times tax even the best of good intentions.

I have no illusions of this site becoming a major presence in the gun culture, and that certainly does not bother me. But I would like to think this could become a fun and informative place for anyone to come to, and feel at home as they would chewing the fat at a local gun club or gun show talking about things of interest to them.

So let's see what we can accomplish here. If you feel I am falling down on something important, just tell me. If you think there is something I should do that would help, just tell me. You are not going to injure my ego by telling me I am going about this all wrong, but I would appreciate, if you do that, your telling me what I need to do in order to correct the problem(s).
 

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You know Rich,one thing you just wrote bothers me.Heck it scares the crap outa me.It's actually a non-issue here but ,to me,it speaks volumes about all of us & I believe that it's a problem w/o a ready solution.You indicated that you haven't spent"the effort to try to search the web & find out about it."

Why does that seemingly innocous line scare me?Well,I've only been "on-line" for a little over a year.I admit to being,still,more than a bit overwhelmed by the sheer expanse of knowledge here(the 'net).Almost everything I've learned in life has either come from a book or directly from another person.This forum(& others)are more in line w/the traditional learning that I'm used too.

The best example that I can give as to why the internet as a tool scares me is thus.
I've been doing my job for fifteen years.I've both seen & trained ALOT of young people.As the years pass I've noticed that more & more kids are looking to the computer for their answers as opposed to knowing them.Case in point.Our last receptionist was 22,the owners daughter,a soon to be 8th grade teacher,& couldn't make change w/o using a calculator.I don't mean $457.28 out of $500.I mean change for a ten.For her w/o the computer it was a five,5 ones,& 4 quarters.Not kidding.
Our current receptionist is 20.She's taking a semester off.I asked her what she knew about Roanoke,Va(it came up,I don't remember why)she had never heard of it.I told her the story to spur her memory.No dice.A co-worker & I(he's 48) asked her to name the continents & the oceans.She got 3 & 3.
It's more than the girls too.I've seen our parts driver(24) look blank when asked who's our state senators.

They all know how to Google.They can "ask jeeves"(?).They don't know a frickin thing though.

I know :eek:fftopic: but that's how I feel.Whatever.
 

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Rich Z said:
And some people may be reluctant to publicly admit that they don't know something that they feel is obvious to other people. So they don't ask those questions that they feel may be embarrassing for them to admit they don't know.

It is ignorance, but in a non malignant way.
Rich, IMHO, not knowing something is ignorance. "Ignorant" is not a pejorative term, despite what people who are ignorant of what ignorant means might think. You can't fault someone for not knowing something.

"Stubborn ignorance", i.e. pretending not to know, or intentionally ignoring the facts, after being told, often many times is called stupidity, and the person is at fault for that.

We're all ignorant of something someone else knows, else we wouldn't be on these forums asking questions.
 

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41 Mag, I know what you're talking about with these people who's brains are stored in a box you plug into a wall.

It's the schools. They don't teach anything. A child's time in school is spent teaching them how to be "politically correct" (Jeff Cooper coined a better phrase for it than that, I just can't remember what it was) and not offend the "poor underprivelaged" people of the world (i.e. third worlders wanting to run our lives), and dumbing everything down so that our inner-city third worlders can pass.

I saw the beginnings of this way back when I graduated high school, before Al Gore thought he invented the internet. We had good teachers. A lot of them, especially in our senior year, spent the semesters trying to get people to think. Some people just wouldn't. They wouldn't think inside the box, much less outside. They are the epitome of drones their attitude was "they'll tell us what to do, and we'll just do it." These are the friggin people out there voting for democrats. "Just tell us what to do and give us (note it's not "let us earn", but GIVE us) what we need." is their way of life. Personal responsibility was flushed long ago, actual learning and thinking not long after.

I was lucky, my mother was a teacher (gave up her career, willingly) to raise the kids -- there's a woman -- and we learned to read, write, even add subtract and multiply (she wasn't all that good at division) before we even went to kindergarten. We had two sets of encylopedias, one from when she was in school and one my parents bought new when I was ready to start school. We learned a lot of spelling and vocabulary playing Scrabble (wanna see someone get pissed? Watch a teacher get beaten by their 8 year old at Scrabble, WITHOUT using the dictionary! :dgrin: )

But nowadays, kids don't get encyclopedias, or if they do, it's the CD version that came with the computer. I'm not kidding, I've seen people that don't know HOW to use an index! WTF? It's like primitive skills, if the power goes out, these people can't do ANYTHING.

Like going into the auto parts store when the computer is down, getting an $8.73 bill, handing the kid behind the counter a $10 bill, and getting this slack-jawed, deer-in-the-headlights look, and "I'm sorry, you'll have to wait a minute, the manager took the calculator."

"You can't do that in your head?"

"Huh, huh, yeah right dude."

"Got a piece of paper? You can do it out longhand."

"What do you mean?"

"It's $1.27."

"The paper?"

"My change."

"Sure dude, I'd better wait, there's some unscrupulous people out there."

. . .Wait, manager comes back with calculator, much tot he relief of the considerable line that had formed behind me. . .

"Whoa, it is a $1.27, how'd you do that in your head?"

. . ."ouch" look from manager. . .

"It's called math, they teach you that in first grade."

"No need to get nasty dude."

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:
 

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I recently asked my girlfriend, a smart, successful, savvy woman, who is a payroll manager for a major international accounting firm, what she new about the Marshall Plan. She gave me a glazed look. As a function of the ensuing explanation, I proceeded to quote Truman, regarding "doomed to repeat history", and she was not sure to whom I was referring.
This woman is smart, kind, and an effective people manager. She has been through numerous "character building" (read 'figurative' ass-whippings) in life, and is no novice. Yet, she is a victim of non-educative education. She is six years my junior and the gulf between her education in such things as history, etcetera and my own is vast.
It leaves me wondering how all those lessons taught by history have been lost, and understanding how the dark ages --midevil times--, where we, as a civilization lost the knowledge that the earth was indeed round, came to pass. How to we get people to realize the old lessons are as important to remember, as are the new ones important to learn?
Satcong
 

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Heck I don't have a problem asking about things I don't know. I'm still young, I know I know nothing. :nyah:

And as for the teachers these days, my high school experience was a little different. You see, I was in the honors classes, and us honors students are pretty headstrong. So, we basically told the teachers how class was going to operate and worked from there. What were the teachers gonna do? Fail us? One teacher tried that...she was fired after 2-3 weeks. :dgrin:
 

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bs it's "known", I prove every day that almost nobody

knows much of anything about realistic guns or shooting.
 

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Even a public school student nowadays can get a good education but you have to do it on your own. I read the old Encyclopedia Americana as much as I could along with history books, "math made easy" books explaining how figures work etc. I just couldn't accept what the teachers were trying to jam down our throats and rebelled from their stupidity. I'm still weak in higher math but can at least add/multiply/subtract/divide in my head. Great fun telling the Burger King guy how much my change is before he even takes my order - they get freaky.

RIKA
 

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Raider said:
Even a public school student nowadays can get a good education but you have to do it on your own
What's the point? We have to pay taxes that pay for public schools, and we have to send our kids there, but they have to teach themselves?

I want my money back.

BTW, my idea of "no kid left behind" doesn't mean dumb everything down so every lazy inner city thrid worlder can pass, it means doing things the way we used to -- you fail a grade, you stay in that grade another year. None of this just passing kids through crap either.
 

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My best friend went to meet with his eldests' teacher & principal last friday.(The boy's 12).The boy complained that the teacher wouldn't teach.Hmmm.
Turns out that the kids would walk into the classroom to see their math assignments written on the blackboard.The teacher would stand up,whip through the days lesson,& then go sit behind his computer for the other 50 minutes of class.The "teacher" WOULD NOT answer questions after sitting down.He was "too busy"!
Not suprise but two weeks into the class & already most every kid was failing.I guess at the meeting the teachers response was along the lines of "what do you want from me?" & "it's not my fault".

Hopefully my friend pulls his kids(4)out of that Catholic school & finds a place where they can have a chance.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Nice to see this one spurred on some conversation. Now that I have a few minutes to be online, let me make some comments on some things that have been said
I kinda figured everyone pretty much knew this stuff, so I don't make posts like that. Are you all really interested in this kind of info?
It does not matter if we know the stuff I wanted to include in forums. You see, what we know in regard to most of that is either book knowledge (Internet knowledge, and jawbone knowledge included) and or personal experience knowledge. I may know all I ever need to know about hunting for Whitetail Deer, but you may come along and tell me something I did not know that makes me a better hunter. I may know all I need to know about how to shoot accurately, and you may come along and say hey wait a minute what you just told me is right but here is a tip for you to try. Do you think I would have ever tried that tip you gave me if you had not given it to me? Probably not, or if so well then who knows when! Someone once told me that 'Ignorance Is Bliss', but not when you want to know something! I sure don't know anywhere near as much as some of you on the subject of firearms. I would like to learn more, and learning from others in a forum is a good way to pick up that initial knowledge.

The subjects I mentioned, by the way, may seem basic to some, but are not necessarily so. Any of them can have either basic or intermediate, or expert aspects. I don't care which you post about, because if too complex I'll just ask questions. As far as to basic, there is no such animals with guns because I see that with shooter after shooter you have to oft times pound and re-pound the basics back into their heads. It actually may seem to be a [pain in the butt, but can be fun. As far as sharing experience here on these forums goes we don't need to be afraid that it is being done on the computer and via the Internet. Sure there are lots of folks who fit this description:
They all know how to Google. They can "ask jeeves"(?).They don't know a frickin thing though.
There have always been people like that whether or not it was in the age of Virtual Reality or before. You know the type, the HS football star who became the shoe salesman - that was not something that was created by the character of Al Bundy, in the show Married with Children, you know! There were always half brained lummoxes in life, lots of them. The computer just made it somewhat easier for them. There is another way to look at the Internet and these forums though.

The way I look at these forums, they are sort of like the general store, or barber shop, in bygone times. A place to get together, to meet in order to share our thoughts. What we do or do not do with those shared thoughts, not our sharing them over the Internet, is what makes us whom we are. If I just sit here and read and type, and never go out to shoot, well then, my knowledge of the subject of firearms and shooting maybe be extensive in a way, but is still extremely limited because I lack personal real life experience! All it would be in that instance would be what used to be called Book Knowledge. If I go out and shoot a lot without ever getting any knowledge, or getting very little, from anyone else (or from a book or the internet), well that knowledge may be extensive in a way, but it will still be limited to my personal experience and it will lack the knowledge of others. Accepting that knowledge from others could really increase my abilities and knowledge. You must have seen someone else write it in a post, or maybe you did yourself, something to the effect: Wow I never thought of that. Maybe you kept that thought to yourself, but I'll bet you have had it before and will again. I sure have had that thought a number of times. Never too old to learn something new.

That is why I keep coming back to sit around the cracker barrel, or is it the pickle barrel. I learn new stuff all the time in these forums that I can use out in the field. I learn it from you guys and gals. The nice thing about these forums and the Internet is that we can be in touch with people who share our interests. I don't have the time or the money to join a club and to be there on a regular basis. I go to the range whenever I can with my son, but that is too few times. Those things are not the fault of my computer, they are the fault of having to do this and that to get on in life, and me not juggling my time well enough. Of course I might be able to go to the range more if I stopped being online as often, but I try to balance the jawboning with the doing.

As far as learning and teaching and teachers and students go, yeah the system sucks. That again is not due to the computer but due to failings in society. People are not held to responsibility in the country any longer. I think this is one of the reasons many in the world hate us, because they see us as doing anything we want and making excuses for our actions or inactions. This is the same with students and teachers. My son's teachers in public school teach. I make darned sure of that. I do what I have to do to assure such. I visited and called my son's guidance counselor at least 50 times (mostly calls but quite a few visits) over the past two or three years of his middle school. I saw and called and even emailed teachers. I saw the assistant principle and the principle. When my son had problems that the teachers tried to lay on him, I wanted to find out if it was 'just' his fault as they tried to say, or if was partly theirs too. Turns out that it was actually a good combination of both, and part mine. I took the actions needed to help him improve: a few yelling matches, forced homework time, man to man (son) talks, thousands spent on tutoring, a reward system set up for his improving. I still owe him a Ruger 10/22 or other rifle of his choosing in 22LR. Why do I owe him that? Well his grades went from mediocre to crappy by the mid part of last year, but then his grades improved. He was an honor student by the end of last year. Guess who did most of the work to improve him. It was not me, not the teachers, not the school administration and not the guidance counselor. It was Brendan, my son. He woke up somewhere along the line and started to study regularly. He still stunk in Spanish, but he passed and his other marls were good enough to get him that honor student status and will get him his rifle.


My point is that we all teach ourselves. Yes we need good teachers to give us the knowledge base and to explain the tools, but we have got to make use of those things all by ourselves. It is just like shooting! You can explain till you are blue in the face how someone has to safely use a rifle, and how they have to aim it, and how to squeeze the trigger and so forth. All that in trying to make a good shooter out of them. Yet when it comes right down to it they will not be a shooter until they pick up that rifle and try to do what you taught them. Whether or not they become a good shot may depend a lot on the base you gave them, but it depends a whole lot more upon how they choose to build upon that base. We can all get that base here, and we can keep adding to it here.

All the best,
Glenn B
 

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Magnum says, "What's the point? We have to pay taxes that pay for public schools, and we have to send our kids there, but they have to teach themselves?

I want my money back."


I want my money back too.

The point is that if I hadn't been interested in learning and hadn't been agressive enough to educate myself in the things not taught well like reading, writing and math then I would have never gone to college and would be working at Burger Biggie or Walmart for minimum wage.

As long as parents are satisfied for their children to get a mediocre education and large doses of brainwashing then thats all they will get. We're all in deep trouble here but so few of us even care to complain that we can't make a dent.

When you have teachers who are drones then what can you expect the students to become?

RIKA
 

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Exactly.Maybe here lies our ultimate SHTF scenario.In fifty years the US will be a nation of a VERY small upper class,a middle class made almost solely of Latin American immigrants,& a huge lower class that are the decendants of the current middle & lower classes.A bunch of spineless,illiterate morons who are incapable of independent thought.Congress & the White House will be taken over by a few moderate Republicans vastly outnumbered by an overwhelming majority of Liberal Dems.I shudder to even guess how many millions will be on the dole by then.

Easy pickins for the Chinese.
 
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