[Terry G]

I had a cook out yesterday for my son, his wife, and a friend from work. My friend brought his new prize, a $2,000.00 Kimber Custom to shoot on my range. To be honest, my Glock 21 and Colt MkII Series 70, looked like a Raven's Arms next to it. The thing is beautiful. We shot on my 25 yard range. The Kimber shot 1.5" groups with 230 Grain Fiocchi ammunition. I got 3" Groups with my Glock, 2.5" groups with my Colt. The difference was my Glock and Colt went off EVERY time we pulled the trigger. The Kimber failed to go into battery once every magazine, usually about the fourth or fifth shot. Then we switched to Golden Sabre and again the Kimber outshot my Glock and Colt. Of course that was when it didn't need a "bump" on the slide to go into battery. My son and I just looked at each other. No one want's to hurt another person's feelings, but would you trade an inch and a half accuaracy for a pistol that does not work? The Glock and Colt shot 3 inches at twenty five yards. How big is a man's chest? I tried, tacfully, to tell my friend not to carry this gun for work. These gun's are target gun's, not combat guns. I'll take an out of the box Glock, or Makarov anytime. The Kimber's tolerances are just too tight for combat.

 

[andy]

yeah, it's about $1400 overpriced, but a smith can fix it in 15minutes, $20. the glock WILL NEVER shoot that well, and it will take $100 or so to make the Colt shoot that well, unless you dont want a collet barrel bushing. then it might take $300 to make the Colt shoot that well, and it could easily need the same sort of tweaking that the Kimber needs.

 

[brass hammer]

i shopped the kimbers for a while,

i'm a southpaw,to rich for my blood!


i'll stay with what works every time[sig 220,s/w 4506]



although your friend might be happier with it after a1000rds.or so, are run threw it? was it that new? feeding due to bad/cheap mags?

sounds like a weak mag/spring[reading 4or5th shot, to me ]



thanks.

 

[andy]

could easily be the recoil spring, too tight an extractor, too rough a chamber, poor feed ramp shape or polish, burr on the breech face, barrel binding in the bushing, poor fit of barrel link, bullet pushing back at impact with the feed ramp, overdone taper crimp, burrs on case rims, or bent case rims, quite a few things to check out. Mag rates first on the list, tho, next to poor ammo.

 

[TODD 3465]

the glock WILL NEVER shoot that well,

Bull Squeeze!

 

[RIKA]

The Kimber will probably loosen up and be just fine after a few hundred rounds but its just too pretty for concealed carry unless you're independently wealthy. Both your Colt and Glock are much better suited for serious business since the run reliably.

Glad you had a nice Labor Day.

RIKA

 

[SatCong]

I have owned and now own but two 1911 handguns. I have carried many, many 1911's. I love them and cherish their characteristics above all other fine handguns. I would never, however, carry one that was new. You bud's Kimber is just like my everyday-carry Kimber ultraII used to be. I broke it in, polished a couple of surfces on the slide stop, and switched to an exclusive diet of Wilson Combat mags. Presto Chango--100% go-bang when desired. Zero FTF/FTE.
SatCong

 

[Terry G]

yeah, it's about $1400 overpriced, but a smith can fix it in 15minutes, $20. the glock WILL NEVER shoot that well, and it will take $100 or so to make the Colt shoot that well, unless you dont want a collet barrel bushing. then it might take $300 to make the Colt shoot that well, and it could easily need the same sort of tweaking that the Kimber needs.

Wrong. My Colt is a MKIV WITH a collet bushing. They came from the factory that way. Anyone who know's firearms know's that. The Glock is perfect at 3 inches at 25 yards. But of course, you have never fired one.

 

[Terry G]

My point with this was that my Glock 21 Christmas gift worked out of the box, no "tweaking" or gunsmith work, it just shot. With taxes, background check, 10% LEO break, and bottle deposit, it was $670.00. $2,000.00 for a gun that need's "some gunsmith work"? Not in my lifetime. I think we are paying way too much for some of these guns. I scoop my Glock or Makarov out of the night stand and with off the shelf ammunition, I know it's going fire all the shots in the magazine. I taught firearms for eighteen years with run of the mill Smith & Wessons, Ruger DAO's, and Glock 17's. They had one thing in common, they WORKED.

 

[Terry G]

could easily be the recoil spring, too tight an extractor, too rough a chamber, poor feed ramp shape or polish, burr on the breech face, barrel binding in the bushing, poor fit of barrel link, bullet pushing back at impact with the feed ramp, overdone taper crimp, burrs on case rims, or bent case rims, quite a few things to check out. Mag rates first on the list, tho, next to poor ammo.

What in the world are you babbling about? I deal with firearms evryday, do you?

 

[41mag]

Ten years ago,before everyone else made 1911 pattern pistols,Kimbers were the holy grail.Now they remind me of early seventies Chryslers.They need to be fixed before they'll even leave the lot.

Now I have zero problem w/anyone who wants to drop $1500 on a pistol.At the minimum I would expect that it would work though.Jeez.

 

[andy]

full size and wt 1911 is too big and heavy for daily ccw. The alloy commander is about right. The smaller guns, especially with shorter butts, have reliability issues,unless a real smith goes over them, and a real shottist shoots them enough, works with the smith, to get things up to snuff.

 

[SatCong]

I have a Sig 2340 that I feel like, apparently as you do, your Glock. Accurate, reliable out-of-the-box. but for me it's about the trigger, and given their particular needs/foibles, I still like to use, once proven reliable, the 1911.
SatCong

 

[Garand]

Personally I like the steel frame Combat Commander. To each his own, least I can own one.

 

[RIKA]

steel frame Combat Commander ... as well as the LW Commander

:beer:

RIKA

 

[andy]

If I'm going to lug around the wt of the steel frame, I'm going to get the accuracy of the collet bushing, and the extra velocity, sight radius, of the Govt Model barrel. Not that I'd bother, the alloy commander being plenty accurate, powerful, reliable, controlable and durable enough, given the right loads being used in it.

 

[RIKA]

Wup. One of those collet bushing fingers can possibly break tying up your gun. A fitted bushing is a better answer.

RIKA

 

[andy]

if you fit the collet bushing, it works just fine, and since nobody carries a Govt Model anyway, it's having a collet bushing is irrelevant. I once put 15,000+ rds thru a Series 70 Colt before the bushing broke, and it did not tie up the gun, nor even effect accuracy. I went to Wilson's place in Berryville, picked out a nice replacement collet bushing from a big boxful of them that he had, and carried on shooting that gun another 10,000 rds, took it to S Africa for the World shoot, and sold it to a guy there for $1000.

 

[Magnum88C]

Geez, he can't figure out how to even carry a Gov't model?

The collet bushing's only purpose was to give good accuracy with Colt's loose tolerances and save money by not having to custom machine bushings for each gun. Buy a good new 1911, they have closer tolerances, and are much better than an out-of-the-box Colt from yesteryear. If you need more accuracy, get either a drop-in or one that needs some machining.

Oh yeah, and get out of the '70s, things have changed.

Terry: The people I've talked to at work that shoot the higher-grade guns all say the same thing, you either have to give them a polish job, or shoot at least 1000 rounds through them before they'll feed anything like 100%. Reason being is, as was mentioned, these are meant for accuracy work, not combat, and they're built tight and need to have the parts wear into each other for proper functioning. You don't need all that accuracy in combat, you need 100% reliability, which is why people who carry 1911s carry well broken in ones, and most people don't carry them.

It's a bit strange that people spend so much on such a gun. They're nice, but for that price, I'd expect a bit more in the finish department than what I've seen. 'Course I'm a cheapskate, there's not many guns I've seen, custom "semi custom" or whatnot that outshoot my $425 Ruger P-90s that I've never had a malfunction of any type with, and will cloverleaf 5/7 @ 25 yards offhand without much trouble.

 

[SatCong]

"Coming from a Kimber lover", I'll second the Ruger kudo, my p85 is so much more than the price would indicate. I call it my "ak-in-a-handgun". It has never had a failure, and "combat accurate".
SatCong