Knife fighting
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We won't talk about anything fancy, and I'm hoping that an Arnis or Escrima practitioner pipes in - those guys are awesome!
Let me think about what can be described.
All the usual caveats apply - knives are inherently dangerous, practicing with one can get you or someone else hurt or killed, this is merely for discussion, yada yada yada
don't do anything stupid.
:devil:
Let me think about what can be described.
All the usual caveats apply - knives are inherently dangerous, practicing with one can get you or someone else hurt or killed, this is merely for discussion, yada yada yada
don't do anything stupid.
:devil:
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Some terms that we will use in our discussions:
Earth (blade) - if you were holding your hand such that your thumb is on top, and grabbed a knife so that the point of the blade is pointing towards the earth (ground). Usually with the cutting edge away from your body. The blade is closer to your little finger.
Sky (blade) - just the opposite. the blade is closest to your thumb and the blade is pointing towards the sky. Again, the cutting edge is facing away from your body.
(started to list a bunch of other stuff, but it started to get complicated...lets just leave it at these two terms)
:devil:
Earth (blade) - if you were holding your hand such that your thumb is on top, and grabbed a knife so that the point of the blade is pointing towards the earth (ground). Usually with the cutting edge away from your body. The blade is closer to your little finger.
Sky (blade) - just the opposite. the blade is closest to your thumb and the blade is pointing towards the sky. Again, the cutting edge is facing away from your body.
(started to list a bunch of other stuff, but it started to get complicated...lets just leave it at these two terms)
:devil:
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I know I'm going to ramble on in parts, so bear with me...
In fist fighting, and in shooting, we've been taught to go for center mass. Always go for the big target to minimize sighting errors.
When knife fighting this is not necessarily true.
Never ignore targets of opportunity. Why settle for blocking a strike when you can render the attacking limb useless?
Use the empty hands and your legs to create openings.
Here's an example:
(Earth blade)
Attacker goes to stike with a right.
You do a block with your left at the wrist (not a grab, a block just behind the wrist)
As you block, your right (with the knife) slices through the bicep. Don't stop the motion.
After passing through the bicep, reverse your movement direction, bringing the blade point first into his throat. ( you are between the throat and the spine)
Variation:
Instead of slicing through the bicep, bring the blade straight through the rotator cuff, top of the shoulder.
You can now either do the stab with the knife to the throat, or collapse your knife arm and do an elbow strike to the head or the jaw line.
Variation two:
punch the knife fist into the solar plexus. As you make contact, bring your arm up and past his neck, blade into flesh the whole time.
Variation three:
Same as two, except bring knife straight up sternum into chin. Reverse direction and plunge knife at the top of the ribcage by the adams apple.
Hows that for a single technique with a few variations?
Get a training knife or a piece of frim rubber or foam to practice with.
More to follow.
:devil:
In fist fighting, and in shooting, we've been taught to go for center mass. Always go for the big target to minimize sighting errors.
When knife fighting this is not necessarily true.
Never ignore targets of opportunity. Why settle for blocking a strike when you can render the attacking limb useless?
Use the empty hands and your legs to create openings.
Here's an example:
(Earth blade)
Attacker goes to stike with a right.
You do a block with your left at the wrist (not a grab, a block just behind the wrist)
As you block, your right (with the knife) slices through the bicep. Don't stop the motion.
After passing through the bicep, reverse your movement direction, bringing the blade point first into his throat. ( you are between the throat and the spine)
Variation:
Instead of slicing through the bicep, bring the blade straight through the rotator cuff, top of the shoulder.
You can now either do the stab with the knife to the throat, or collapse your knife arm and do an elbow strike to the head or the jaw line.
Variation two:
punch the knife fist into the solar plexus. As you make contact, bring your arm up and past his neck, blade into flesh the whole time.
Variation three:
Same as two, except bring knife straight up sternum into chin. Reverse direction and plunge knife at the top of the ribcage by the adams apple.
Hows that for a single technique with a few variations?
Get a training knife or a piece of frim rubber or foam to practice with.
More to follow.
:devil:
Figured I'd check in. I've got a few years on and off with FMA and a little exposure to silat and kun tao as well.
I've really grown to favor a point-oriented system over the past year or so with short knives. For the 7"+ blades, and in particular the 9"+, the slashing/chopping methods work very well, IMO. With a big blade, disarming becomes quite the literal term!
For a short knife, whether in heaven (sak sak) or earth (pakal or pikal), I really like keeping the edge towards me. Any attempt to block the stab immediately is countered with a strike to the face or neck with the other hand, and the knife is forcefully ripped backwards, hopefully filleting the blocking arm. Then the stabbing commences again...
I've really grown to favor a point-oriented system over the past year or so with short knives. For the 7"+ blades, and in particular the 9"+, the slashing/chopping methods work very well, IMO. With a big blade, disarming becomes quite the literal term!
For a short knife, whether in heaven (sak sak) or earth (pakal or pikal), I really like keeping the edge towards me. Any attempt to block the stab immediately is countered with a strike to the face or neck with the other hand, and the knife is forcefully ripped backwards, hopefully filleting the blocking arm. Then the stabbing commences again...
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I was going to avoid the proper terms (sak sak and pakal) for two reasons: Confuse people and I can't spell worth a darn...
I thought about blade in towards the body, but I've seen people hurt themselves when just starting out....
I think this thread will get interesting!
:devil:
I thought about blade in towards the body, but I've seen people hurt themselves when just starting out....
I think this thread will get interesting!
:devil:
I never studied Filipino ?Indonesian styles,but much oif what you describe here is simililar o my own instruction/experience....Aslan;in the Sky position,atre you using your thumb to index the back of the blade&direct the point as part of the motion?
PS-I lke the whole limb destruction thing;its usually been among my favored discussuion enders. :dgrin:
PS-I lke the whole limb destruction thing;its usually been among my favored discussuion enders. :dgrin:
I wouldn't index the blade simply because it sacrifices grip strength. I used to play more fast and loose with various grips, but having had the blade knocked out of my hand more than once while doing that has made me far more cautious.
My advice is to lock your thumb down as if you were gripping a hammer.
My advice is to lock your thumb down as if you were gripping a hammer.
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I agree with Wylycoyte on the thumb issue.
There are two conflicting schools of thought on grips, at least it appears to be. Tight grip vs loose grip.
For me, I realized it's just like a strike with a fist. Relaxed is faster, but the grip has to be tight when you connect.
I don't know how to describe it beyond that. It's like a zen thing. You will know it when you can do it, but until then you won't understand.
There are two conflicting schools of thought on grips, at least it appears to be. Tight grip vs loose grip.
For me, I realized it's just like a strike with a fist. Relaxed is faster, but the grip has to be tight when you connect.
I don't know how to describe it beyond that. It's like a zen thing. You will know it when you can do it, but until then you won't understand.
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Limb destruction is where it's at, for me, for the most part.
Attacking the wrists and hands of your opponent can take the fight right out of someone quickly.
Sever the tendons along the back of the hand and the hand is out of the fight.
Go for the wrist and you'll either sever the radial - inside the arm (and the guy will bleed out in short order) or you will sever the tendons and again take the hand out of the fight.
Slashes accross the forehead puts blood into the eyes and interferes with vision. Miss and you take out one or both eyes.
:devil:
Attacking the wrists and hands of your opponent can take the fight right out of someone quickly.
Sever the tendons along the back of the hand and the hand is out of the fight.
Go for the wrist and you'll either sever the radial - inside the arm (and the guy will bleed out in short order) or you will sever the tendons and again take the hand out of the fight.
Slashes accross the forehead puts blood into the eyes and interferes with vision. Miss and you take out one or both eyes.
:devil:
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Don't forget your other hand....
make a strike towards centerline with the knifehand (This is safer earth blade - you'll see why).
As he goes to block, bring the knife hand towards his hand, bring your empty hand towards his blocking hand. the empty hand should catch him below the wrist, the knife hand above.
Don't stop the motion. (your arms are moving quickly, like a strike - which it is.) You will break either his arm or his wrist.
you used the knife to create a target of opportunity, but the knife was not the destructive force in this instance.
:devil:
make a strike towards centerline with the knifehand (This is safer earth blade - you'll see why).
As he goes to block, bring the knife hand towards his hand, bring your empty hand towards his blocking hand. the empty hand should catch him below the wrist, the knife hand above.
Don't stop the motion. (your arms are moving quickly, like a strike - which it is.) You will break either his arm or his wrist.
you used the knife to create a target of opportunity, but the knife was not the destructive force in this instance.
:devil:
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I really wish a Kali, Escrima, or Arnis artist were here. They eat, drink, and breathe this stuff. They've got some really cool stuff.
I once saw a guy do something like 200 cuts in less than a minute on a dummy. It was some of the most amazing knife work I have ever seen. And that included moving, empty hand strikes, etc.
Anyone that doesn't respect a blade has never seen one in the hands of someone that knows how to use one.
:devil:
I once saw a guy do something like 200 cuts in less than a minute on a dummy. It was some of the most amazing knife work I have ever seen. And that included moving, empty hand strikes, etc.
Anyone that doesn't respect a blade has never seen one in the hands of someone that knows how to use one.
:devil:
Excellent posts Aslan...
I've got some experience in knife fighting and training and I'll just say one thing. I'd rather get in a gun fight or bare knuckles than a knife fight. They suck majorly.
The 3 things to remember about a knife fight is this...
1. You are going to get cut. No way around it. You will bleed.
2. You are going to win or lose in the first 30 seconds of the fight.
3. If you have any option to use anything else but a knife, do so.
Mike
I've got some experience in knife fighting and training and I'll just say one thing. I'd rather get in a gun fight or bare knuckles than a knife fight. They suck majorly.
The 3 things to remember about a knife fight is this...
1. You are going to get cut. No way around it. You will bleed.
2. You are going to win or lose in the first 30 seconds of the fight.
3. If you have any option to use anything else but a knife, do so.
Mike
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Yes, you will be cut. Get over it. Once you accept this, the mindset is actually better. Instead of worrying about getting cut, you focus on winning.
I've heard it as low as 10 seconds to determine the outcome, to the 30 second figure.
Best way to deal with a knife fight - don't be in one.
:devil:
I've heard it as low as 10 seconds to determine the outcome, to the 30 second figure.
Best way to deal with a knife fight - don't be in one.
:devil:
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