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Discussion Starter #1
A firearm or knife. Which one.

Now, no "I'm gonna kill someone and get their knife" stupidity. If lost in the wilderness, or where there really is very few people, or where the few people (survivors) have no real survival tools, then which do you what, firearm or knife?
 

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I would have to pick a knife for several reasons.

A knife can build make-to shelters.

A knife can be used to make traps for small-large game and everything in between.

A knife can be used to make eating and cooking utensils.

A knife can make/help make other weapons: blowguns, poisons, spears, tomahawks and even other knives made from stone or bone.

You can hunt with it just as you can a firearm and it does not need to be reloaded. When a gun is out of ammo, it is nothing more than a large paper weight.
 

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In your scenario I would choose the Knife. The Randall Number One on my pistol belt would do very well indeed.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Todd, it crossed my mind to get a glock with a knife mounted were the flashlight rails are!

I know we all love our guns, and build so many survival criteria and senarios around them, but when you look at it, it's the persons knowledge and wits that pull them through.

I would pick the knife. In fact, there are several things I would pick OVER a gun as the 'must have'. And good knowledge about what's eatable, how one can get water, where the best place to make shelter, making real good snares and traps and fishing methods, make fire, etc... is THE most important one of them. No I'm not a McGiver fan, but I just see so much gunkid's 'you got to have this' yak yak I'm afraid some people will think that's all one needs to survive anywhere.

Your knowledge of what one needs and flexabiltiy to adapt is so much more important. That and a few good tools, like a knife and firemaker, are the basics. The gun is a nice, yes real nice, thing to have out there, but I just think it can become a crutch instead of a lifesaver for at least one person here.
 

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I know I have often said the knife would be the better of the two items to have in order to survive, but there are reasons that the gun, particularly a large caliber rifle, would be the better thing to have. I am not sure this wins out over the knife but here goes:

A rifle can be used for self defense against animals or humans.

If you are lost, it is very likely people will be looking for you and waiting for signals. A gun can be used as a distress signal.

If you have sufficient ammunition (and since you did not specify, I will say I have 50 or more rounds) you can use the gunpowder in some to start fires.

Shell casings can be used as fishing lures.

Shell casings can probably be used as small knives after hammering flat with stones and putting an edge to the creases.

A gun is a more efficient hunting tool than anything a knife can make. Note I did not say it will get more game (in numbers) than say a trap made with the knife, but most people would not know how to make the trap. Even if you do know how to make it, shooting one large game animal is more efficient than trying to bag a rabbit every other day or a few mice every day.

If you take big game, bones and antlers can be made into easily fashioned knives that will suffice for most needs until you get found, or until you find steel (in a SHTF survivor scenario).

You may be able to fashion a usuable knife/axe from a metal butt plate, now your rifle has done double duty. I will have to experiment with attempting to grind down one with some hard natural stones (ask me in about 10 years LOL when I remember to get around to it).

A passable knife can probably be made from certain stones by even an inexperienced person who attempts to chip one out of stone. No not easy to duplicate a stoneage spear point or an Indian arrow head, but a scrapper, or very crude axe could be fashioned.

Spears made from sharpened wood then hardened in fire can be made with natural stones that have an edge, so again no need for the knife. Never use your knife as a spear head, think what happens when you spear a deer and the deer takes off knife in its butt, never to be seen by you again.

Yes the knife is the more basic tool, but if lost in the wilderness in the USA the gun may be the better thing to have.

I am not saying it is for sure, and I would probably take a knife for overall survival, but after giving this more thought tonight, I look more favorably at having a rifle than I did before thinking it over again.
 

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it should be 'factard'

that ,although not easily made, a sharpe flint/suitable stone 'shard' will /could

suffice @ short term 'delimas'[s.p] as a skinning/ chopping, 'tool'.


i'll take the gun[with as many rounds]


BESIDES! WHO/WHAT! travels without a sturdy blade!///////??????????




:wavey:
 

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What happens when you run out of ammo, though? The gun is reduced to a meaningless memory. A very well made knife has so, so, so many more practical uses. The gun cannot:

Make traps which never need reloading for sustained survival over long periods of time if, God forbid, need be.

Make other weapons.

Make improvised rope for shelter, rappeling, tie-downs and traps.

Help start fires without wasting life-saving and life-giving ammunition.

Help tend to wounds and improvised sutures/ligatures.

Help tend with venomous wounds.

Fish.

Help in the process of: waste disposal, water purification, making shelter, clearing rough vegetation, and so much more.

Sure, I think any sane human being would prefer to have a gun (with a ton of ammunition), not only for hunting but also security. I know I would! But, having an extensive supply of ammo is really improbable giving the scenario we were presented with. Even if there were as few as 10 survivors out in this wilderness setting, stop and think about this -- IF there were large game in your vicinity, then, sure, 50 rounds can take a lot of game for sustained periods of time. But, if there isn't, then 50 rounds can be used up in very short order.

I also have to disagree on the trap making skills of even an inexperienced person. If, like you said, even an inexperienced person may be able to make an improvised knife, then I would think the much-easier-made traps would be just as well done by someone inexperienced. Most traps are nothing but logic put into wood then to motion.

If cave men - in small numbers - could take down several ton mammoths, then I rhink modern man could take bear and the like with spears fashioned by knives. There are methods (very relaible ones) of taking large game with improvised traps.

Actually, after having thought about this a bit more, too, I think I'd rather have a razor-edged capable tomahawk like one of Cold Steel's. (Awesome weapons by the way) They can do anything a knife can do and so much more.

Glenn, I have to hand it to you... You thought of far more uses of individual components of a firearm/ammunition than I ever would have!
 

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DJetAce said:
A firearm or knife. Which one.

Now, no "I'm gonna kill someone and get their knife" stupidity. If lost in the wilderness, or where there really is very few people, or where the few people (survivors) have no real survival tools, then which do you what, firearm or knife?
If I had to choose between the two, my first choice will be a knife.

Mike
 

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Gotta go with the knife myself if we're talking lost in the woods. Food procurement is going to be way down on the list of "must do's" in this situation, far more important is going to be: shelter, fire, splints if need be, etc. I don't know about you all, but I know I can go at least a couple days without eating (ok, I'll admit it, I can probably go a couple weeks before I look like I did in high school) and can always subsist on plants and bugs (remember we're talking lost, not Robinson Caruso or Gilligan's Island) until I find a road or get found. Bear in mind however, that the woods I'm in are usually in Mass, where 20 miles in any direction will have you hit a road, so as long as I can stop walking in circles, I'm bound to find my way out eventually, those in true wilderness situations would have to plan a lot better for survival, and shouldn't be out there without at least a knife anyway.
 

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He never said how much ammo you'd have with the gun.

:dunce:

I think I'd have to go with the knife. Most survival scenarios are less than a few day's duration. Although the ability of a firearm to ignite tinder is quite nice, come to think of it, particularly since fire is one of the first and foremost concerns in most environments.
 

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so what? U think I base my needs on what HE thinks?

:) since guys are so SURE that they can lug around 30+ lbs of .45, 308, etc, that means I can have 200 rds of 223, and THOUSANDS of rds of .22lr. Maybe you dont know anything about survival trapping, poaching, fishing, and use of edible plants, gardening, animal husbandry, etc, but I do. Also, you're going to find or barter for SOME 223, and LOTS of 22 rimfire. Theres going to be VERY little need for shooting, after the first year of shtf. It's VERY easy to make or find a cutting edge. Making a hunting-fighting weapon that's as efficient as a suppressed, scoped CAR-15 and .22 unit is out of the question. .22 lr is 135 rds to the lb, so 1000 rds is 6 lbs. 223's are 40 rds to the lb. My normal load is 86 rds of 223, and 200 rds of 223. That is a total ammo wt of 3.5 lbs. So carrying an extra 120 rds of 223 and 1800 more rds of 22lr adds 15 lbs to my 16 lb "loadout". :)
 

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Well, if we're going to color outside the lines, I'll have my full kit with me.

Since this was an A or B scenario, with no ammo count specified, I questioned your "50 years" assertion.
 

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We seem to have drifted from fact to fantasy. Why am I not surprised.

RIKA
 

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gunkid/erika, if you want to get into fantasy, lets discuss the kit that you have ready to go, AT THIS MOMENT! Otherwise, I'll pick a good knife because of the versatility.
 

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if none's specified, then all you can CARRY is the amount

your misconception is not my problem. I dont see you laughing at the fools who CLAIM that they can carry 40 lbs of guns and ammo, AND 40 lbs of other survival gear, under deadly-threat conditions, for years on end.
 

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1year after shtf, 90+% of people will be dead, or

things will have otherwise settled down. then you wont need 5 rds of 223, or 20 rds of .22 a year. The game will be gone, so the only use for a gun will be to kill the occasional person, and a .22 will suffice for that, nearly always(or else you are screwing up so badly that you wont make it) post shtf, lack of med care makes a .22 hit lethal, nearly always. The fact that a FEW, MUCH TOUGHER men handled such hits, and managed to live (with people CARING FOR THEM, for months on end) has NOTHING to do with today's wussies, who wont have ANYBODY free to care for them. All a loved one will be able to do for you is kill you quickly, most likely, if you take a .22 to the body someplace. That's a fact, and if you can't face facts, you have no chance at all, post shtf.
 
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