Law breakers breaking laws to uphold laws

We are losing our rights everyday. And this is supposed to be a free country?

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A quote by Thomas Paine is applicable to your words:

Society in every state is a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.

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We may have the NECESSARY evil, but certainly have nothing near the INTOLERABLE one.

All this talk of people abusing their power and wiping out your rights is, as I see it, pure manure. So the police have some more power after 9/11. Some laws are on the books that you apparently don't like and enforcement of them gets you upset, and apparently upset enough to accuse law enforcement officials of being above the law. First of all that too is for the great majority of LEOs a lot of horse hockey. Sure some cops are jerks, and act as if they can violate our rights simply because they have a badge and a gun, but most in law enforcement are there for a different reason - to protect the rights of guys like you, so you can bad mouth us. It makes me want to vomit. Why bad mouth law enforcement as a group; why not rather document the specific offenders and offenses and report them to the proper authorities. Then how about trying to support the efforts of law enforcement in their daily quest to fight crime, and defeat the criminal element in this country and abroad.

You have not lost rights every day as you claim, nor has anyone else in the USA. The rights are still there but possibly interpreted somewhat differently because of recent all too horrific events; and bear in mind that the government has rights too - especially regarding national security. Sorry if I cannot shed a tear for you - I would rather busy myself, trying to make America secure enough so that you and any other American doesn't wind up dead with a terrorist bomb fragment in your head. That may not be preventable, even the Israelis seem unable to prevent terrorism, but we are sure trying to prevent it. We have held em off for a good while now too. Why do we do that, why do we protect you? Sometimes when I see stuff like what you wrote I have to wonder myself. While you complain of all the rights you have lost, please bear in mind that most law enforcement officers in the USA are hard at work assuring that tonight you can sleep soundly in your bed and wake up refreshed tomorrow completely free to bad mouth your protectors again; to me it sounds like you have quite a bit of freedom.

Freedom is not free that is for certain. Running away to way out in the country accomplishes nothing with regards to freedom. If you really want freedom to ring in the USA, then I suggest you heed some other words of Thomas Paine:

Those who expect to reap the blessing of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it.

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-- Thomas Paine, 1737-1809

The key words here being: ..."the fatigue of supporting it"...!

Hell I volunteered to be a Federal Air Marshal after 9/11 and was so assigned for 6 months. I crapped my pants every time the plane started to roll down the runway. I also volunteered to work the Joint Terrorist Task Force and am doing so currently. Do you think that law enforcement officers volunteer for these things just to get a special badge? Mine is the same piece of gold plated tin I had before I volunteered. Or maybe you think we are out there looking for Little Bo Peep's lost sheep. Well it ain't so fella. I have only two years sixty three days until I can retire after 24 years of putting up with the likes of ungrateful people like you. Sometimes, with all the bad stuff going on lately, and with my recent assignments, I wonder if I will make it until then. Just that thought alone makes me seriously wonder if protecting the freedoms of guys like you is worth it after all! And while I may wonder about it, I know what I'll be doing the next time I show up for work, and it won't be oppressing the freedom of Americans (not even yours), that is for sure!

Ok so now all the cops that break laws are ok?

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Now reread my original post in this thread and show me where in any way I said that law enfocement violating law or regulation is ok!

Why bad mouth law enforcement as a group; why not rather document the specific offenders and offenses and report them to the proper authorities.

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Is what I said about law enforcement who break the rules. Now if you have done that already at the local level without good result, maybe it is time to move up to the state or federal levels. Dirtbag cops are just that - Dirtbags! As for cops telling you that you had to return a car before it was paid for - well guess what - cops make mistakes too. If you feel so wronged by it then get a lawyer and file a civil claim in civil court. You may be surprosed what an effect that can have. I do not condone dirtbag law enforcement officers by any stretch of the imagination - in fact I turned one in a couple years back for beating a prisoner - I got no medals or thanks for that, I got only bigtime grief I can tell you - but I did the right thing and would do it again.

I have lived in small towns, while a federal LEO. I have witnessed less than good work performance there by the local officers and was subjected to their inadequuacies myself. I filed a formal complaint, it went to the state level and they were punished for their inactions. You certainly can document any wrongdoing of a police officer, report it, have it investigated and then have the officers punished - but guess what - they too are innocent until proven guilty if a criminal offesnse - and in a civil or administrative matter you need to show a preponderance of the evidence to make a charge stick. One other thing, especially true of police on the street level - they get complaints every day. They get legitimate complaints and bogus complaints from every type of citizen they encounter from a dirtbag to the pope! Most of the complaints are usually handled foir what they are which is trash, but the ones that are real should be investigated and the officer should pay the piper.

This last bit is for Randy. If you have witnessed the things you say you have seen, and then not documented all of the available evidence and then not reported them, or not arrested for at least the most serious offense, and if you are truly an LEO, then you are, in my opinion, one of the ones that needs to be charged yourself with failure to carry out your duties! Soliciting sexual favors from a minor is falls under peodophilia, and that is a crime comitted by sickos, and a crime that is overlooked only by, in my opinion, only a low life.

As to the other violations that you witness, have you reported each of them too. Heck get a video camera and document those cops running lights. If there is no legitimate reason they would likely be in hot water. As to speeding without lights on, there could be a legitimate reason even if it does violate regulation. If your life has ever been on the line in such a situation you would know what I mean.

If on the other hand you did document and report all of it - good for you! I hope the guy who did the soliciting thing of a minor is in jail right now. I surely would like the docket number if this went to court so I could read up on it. It gives me a feeling of some satisfaction to see dirtbag LEOs get what is coming to them.

PS please don't think I am ignoring you guys if I don't reply to your answers. I will be out of town for a couple of days, should have left ten minutes ago.

Best regards,
Glenn B

dself40,

Actually you explained yourself much better this time, and maybe it is me who owes you the apology. Sorry if I offended you. The subject does get me going, though I do understand how some LEOs can be real jerks. I gotta say one thing about speeding tickets: Do you ever speed by a cop and not get a ticket? It is a common thing to see police officers use discretion and not enforce laws, while at other times they may enforce them. I am not trying to stick up for the jerks - but am just talking about them in general. As for them not giving tickets to other cops, yeah I know that happens. That is a privilege thing they USUALLY extend to other LEOs but believe me not always. I'll bet though there are lots of things cops have seen you do that violate regulations or laws that they do not enforce. I don't know if it is right or not. Cops also give courtesy to the general public too. Little things like not ticketing you every time you speed, or every time you do not use your directional signal, or when you spit on the ground, or when you litter and on and on. Their job, to some extent, is enforcing the law; however they are under no obligation to do so - as was determined in the Supreme Court (pretty sure it was the SC and not an appellate court) not too long ago. The SC said LEOs are under no obligation to investigate or enforce laws (isn't that amazing - but true).

I understand how the bs of what the cops in your area are allegedly doing can be offensive, As for regular folks having to document an offense, so to do police officers, and that documentation will come out in court if they are properly challenged. You may be surprised to see exactly what documentation they have, but yes a lot of it does come down to their word against yours in some cases. The reason for that is pretty basic - lots of people try to lie their way to a not guilty verdict - could be many reasons for it - such as insurance will go up, husband will beat wife, wife will beat husband, dad will get mad, mom will get mad, I don't really think I was speeding, I was only doing 57 in a 55 zone and wasn't going 90. The thing is though that if a cop is ever proven to lie under oath (in criminal cases anyway) they can be prevented from ever testifying again in another criminal case or at least be prejudiced against by the court. If called to task, however, they will have to prove their case in more detail. It happens a lot. They will have to produce notes, show the method they used to clock your speed, show that the equipment was working properly, show what the speed limit actually was at the place you got stopped, and often produce their prior record as an LEO. In the daily run of the mill case, they don't need to do that because the judge is pretty familiar with such cases, and believes the integrity of the officer and because even the ticketed person never complains that the cop did anything wrong but just says the officer must be mistaken. Enough complaints about a cop doing stuff wrong will get him censored, reprimanded, fined, or even fired; but those complaints do need to be documented. Another reason for documentation is that people, especially guilty ones, often try to set up the cop with a complaint so that the cop will get in trouble and look less credible thereby reducing or negating the original charges.

The system we have now is not perfect, but that is all part of human nature. This is not an excuse but an explanation. I don't need to excuse human nature. Sometimes our nature sucks, but when you see that same cop who you complain about: giving CPR to your child after some freak accident, or when the cop is struck and killed by a speeding drunk driver as he writes a ticket to another speeder on the side of the road, or when that same cop takes a bullet in a hostage situation trying to save a group of people who some crazy is holding, or when you see one cop the hero for justifiably shooting an crazed criminal of his own race, yet another under virtually identical circumstances gets fried in the press and by both civil and criminal courts because he shot a crazed criminal of another race - then maybe you will understand (not condone but just understand) why they don't always give one another tickets all that often.

John,

I have read some articles on this recent event called Operation Slither. I have not seen any references to the coke snorting and pot smoking of which you refer. These things, by the way would be illegal for a LEO to do in any investigation except maybe where someone's life depended on it in the immediate time frame (such as if you don't smoke this joint I'll kill you because then I'll know your a cop - and the guy has a gun shoved in your face). Even then, as I remember my training, I am not supposed to puff away, but I think I'd rather puff on a doobie than the barrel of a 44 magnum!

I am not saying that the things you report did not actually happen, but it was not reported in the few articles I saw and I will say I strongly doubt it did actually happen. LEOs do not smoke pot and snort coke to further investigations. In fact, they often make it look as if that is what they are doing, but some officers are pretty well trained in how to fake it.

As for other actions, there is very possibly absolutely nothing wrong with them:QUOTE]In one instance one official sold a turtle to one vender at a show and not 30 minutes later another official bought it back from him.[/QUOTE]Guess what, actions like this by the police are perfectly legal (dependent upon local, state or federal regulations that are applicable to the case). That is how undercover operations are often legally carried out. So long as the police did not entrap the offender (such as by offering the illegal item at a ridiculously lowball price, or by offering to buy it an an absurdly high price) at the time of either event buying or selling, then such was likely alright legally.

You also mentioned that wildlife officials raped the woods - I imagine you mean they caught some animals to use in the sting operation. If that was the case, my guess would be that these animals are returned to the wild pretty close to where each was found. My other guess is that there are sections in the law permitting wildlife officers to capture wildlife for study and appropriate purposes. Chances are they did what they did legally. I see absolutely nothing wrong with them using a turtle as bait to catch someone who would illegally buy and sell such, It is a fact that people who do so are bringing down the pet industry, the herp hobby, and are screwing wit the environment. Sure I know some environmental laws, and laws about herp keeping suck, but that is why you need to properly keep what you can and educate the public and politicians about these animals while overcoming the prejudice against reptiles and their keepers at the same time.

I am pretty open to change my mind about what went on at operation slither - just send me the links and I'll read the articles or forums; but for now my guess would be that this was another run of the mill undercover operation.


Best regards,
Glenn b