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least liked defense on the range

3518 Views 27 Replies 9 Participants Last post by  Glenn Bartley
There are few of us who can even find a good sparring partner. I am 6'5" at about 260lbs. Finding anyone willing to work out with me and self defense is hard. There is nothing like using a willing partner to fine tune that muscle memory.

I have hundreds if not thousands of hours of instruction in hand to hand combat. I have also had numerous occasions to use it. If anyone wants to do some old guy computer tactical training, please let me know.
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I"ve taught MooDukKwan for 30 years

now. Not that many chances to use it, but then I always carried a gun. Almost no one wants to REALLY mix it up with a guy who makes it obvious that there's going to be SOMEBODY in a wheelchair when it's all over. :)

You haven't been teaching anything.That old lies been put down so many times it's not even funny anymore.Your talk and nothing more.
I personally like Kuntao Silat. It's not a sport martial art, and the system is very complete: ranged attacks / defenses, close in stuff, and ground fighting.

I've spent a lot of time doing multiple attacker drills, which can be a very humbling experience. 2 on 1 or 3 on 1.

Not the one person attacks at a time stuff like you see in the movies, but everyone's free to attack as they see fit.

Very good stuff to make you think and move. Techniques that may be very effective against a single attacker may not work against mulitple opponents.
Grasshopper, When the student is ready the master will appear..........

OK, put down the PS2 and stop playing SOCOM and Mortal Combat.

Re: I"ve taught MooDukKwan for 30 years

Unregistered said:
now. Not that many chances to use it, but then I always carried a gun. Almost no one wants to REALLY mix it up with a guy who makes it obvious that there's going to be SOMEBODY in a wheelchair when it's all over. :)
Um, up the meds a bit...
I prefer the chinese internals like Hsin-i and Pua-Kua. Just personal preference. The man who originated the style learned a lot of verious chinese style while liveing in china. He put together his own ideas based on commonality and applicability of the mealsteom of knowledge. I thinkl he is right, so does the Tiawanese SASG. Anyway, it's a very practical martial art. It's another type of kung-fu, we refer to it as chinese boxing or just the boxing. If anybody wants to just talk nuts and bolts please chime in.
We did a lot Pa kua and Hsin-i (sp?)

I got into some of the more complex changes in Pa kua (double palm vs single)

and really found it useful and it translates very well to dealing with multiple oponents where you have to keep constantly moving.
had a job once upon a time where i found myself in a position where i was facing small groups of individuals intent on doing bodily harm to someone in my care. of those nine encounters i wound up in the hospital five times for injuries suffered due to trying to overcome the combined actions of multiple attackers single handedly, twice while armed with a firearm. All the encounters came to fisticuffs as one point or four and everytime i found that no matter how you stack'em it is realy hard to contend with multiple opponents. if it makes you feel any better i did happen to put several of those same said opponents in the hospital as well. and to unregistered's stark glee, i actually shot one of them as he advanced. all in all the whole multiple opponent strategy is one that relies more on experience and circumstance. training to fight multiple opponents tends to be unrealistic many times because the basic tennent of the training is to either get away or to throw out a series of fast bet less deadly attacks. most people cant attack as often as a group of aggressive men all by themselves, attrition is a hard task master.
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Yep, that's one of the things that is very humbling about multiple attackers.

You will get hit and you will get hurt.

Depending on the # of attackers and their intent, you can sorta choose which blows you're willing to take - to a point.

Best thing with many attackers is get out of dodge. Second best thing. Take as many out as you can.

Always move, move, hit, move some more....

That's why I like multiple attacker drills. If they are even remotely realistic, you get hit alot. It tends to take the invincible supermen down a peg or two.

Plus you get to see why some things will work and others will not.

Glad you survived your encounters!
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i was balled up between to cars in a parking lot while being set upon by four men with the intent of bodily to the point of heavenly ascention. on my back, on man literaly under me hugging my left arm to my side. another man had my right leg in a impromptu scissors. the other two were trying valiantly to do their best impressions of virgins stomping grapes while i fumbled to get a stun grenade out od my jacket pocket. i got two broken ribs, one mashed up eye, a nice dental bill, a seperated hip, and pissed blood for several days. but, i did get to poke one guy in the eye and rip another's lip about two inches. once the grenade went off we all sort laid there in a pile as car alarms went off for what seemed like miles. there was auro glass everywhere, and the cops got take us all to jail or the hospital. guess where i got to go. got into this situation because my employer asked that if there was trouble at this nice swank eatery of his preference that there be no gunplay. i felt like shooting him. i guess paying for protection means you get tell the guy you hired how to do his job.
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Your name seems awfully familiar to me.

You got any folks in Athens, or Social Circle by any chance?
sorry, no, i was reared in northwest georgia. but, it is nice to make your acquaintance.
Here's My Favorite Martial Art ...

:p Me, I like Moo Goo Gai Pan! As a younger man I studied Beijing Duk for years; but, today, I prefer the joint pulling techniques of Moo Gu - especially against multiple opponents on the same plate. The last time I mixed it up, I remember flattening 'im out, then, pulling off the wings and ripping out the drumsticks. Umm, delicious! :smokin:
damn, arch angel, or should i say saint duckeater! the last time i heard od such violence from a practicioner of moo gu gia pan there was a serious altercation between two masters at the end of the buffet over the phi ton mie!
Just Call Me, 'Ducky'!

:rolleyes: Well, it's nice to see that you guys have a sense of humor! Actually after more than 30 years of breaking my bones with this stuff, I think that - if I had it to do, all, over again - I'd probably choose Aikido as the one art to practice above all others.

I liked Michael Eschanis' 3 books on Hwa Wrang Do; in their time they offered a seminal approach to, both, the arts and spirituality. I, also, enjoyed Stephen Hayes' several books on the black arts of the Ninja - which turned out not to be so, 'black' after all. It has, also, been my privilege to exchange views and techniques with Ed Parker and Gil Hibben - each of whom I will never forget.

My personal specialty for many years was the knife; but I'd have to say that, recently, everyone seems to have caught up. I don't see the mistakes being made with short blades, today, that I used to see years ago. (The old movies were the worst!) Perhaps, this is a sign of the times; the world is, after all, a much more violent place in which to live, now, than when I was a young man practicing with a barrel of old Garand bayonets. (Back then, old bayonets cost about 4 or 5 dollars a blade. Today, those same bayonets are worth more than $50.00 apiece!)

The Oriental Arts are great - as long as a practioner stays with them long enough to get past all of the physical stuff. I honestly believe I'm a better Christian, today, because of my intense interest in these disciplines as a young man.

Regards, 'AA'

PS: Oh, yeah, somebody pass the duck! ;)
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I've only had only a bit of training in hand to hand combat from my jobs as a fed agent over the past 24 years, and about 6 months of jujitsu training when I was in college. I also had some rough friends when I was a teen and learned to street fight quickly. I gotta like that jujitsu because on the various occasions that I have had to get out of tough ones with single or multiple attackers, I have invariably used a jujitsu move or three but even that does not always work. Despite the small amount of jujitsu I learned (or the little of it I remember) and the paucity of my fed training (even less remembered) I have lived another day on several occasions because I quickly reverted to some other exotic forms of survival techniques that basically amounted to me improvosing among those things mentioned above. Despite not knowing much in the lines of unarmed combat techniques, I can say that in many encounters of the violent type wherein I have been the one who was attacked - I have taken a lickin but keep on tickin.

In one instance I had at least 5 attackers take away a prisoner from me while at the same time trying to drag me into Mexico through a hole in the fence while simultaneously giving me a bad, bad beating and trying to take away my gun. I depended heavily upon the technique of Balsac Kik-Qwik Do and several eye gouges, face rakes, throws, punches, kicks and one warning shot. I kept my gun, remained in the USA, lost a prisoner and my handcuffs, and wound up with only a fractured sternum despite lots of talk by the bad guys that they were gonna kill me. Believe me, they tried real hard to do just that. I truly believe that my reliance on Balsac Kik-Qwik Do helped turn it around in my favor more than anything; that warning shot only came after I freed myself using the improvised martial arts moves and only kept them from coming at me again. It was the repeated Balsac-Kik Do moves that did the trick. By the way, the prisoner was eventually caught by the Judiciales (state police Baja Calif. Norte) and I even got my handcuffs back.

Another time I had a single attacker try to take my gun and wind up biting me, leaving my left bicep scarred for life. He wound up arrested after being thrown to the ground and kicked a few times on the way down, and then in a display of the ancient martial art of SumNeeNow had the knee of an Immigration Inspector (who came to help me out) land on his chest accompanied with a big exhalation that was cut short with a squeal as my right shin landed across his windpipe in a move that caused him to quickly clench his teeth together in a totally forced maniacal sort of a grin. This tactic was mastered by the ancient practitioners of Shin Mai-Kee Grin .

Another time I had a guy who tried to evade me by running up an outside covered stairwell into a hotel (very old west like). As I got near to the top steps the alarms went off in my head - something was wrong! I guess I had not heard the hotel's fire escape door slam shut as it usually did after someone had run inside. I put on the brakes and started to crouch but held my mag lite up over my head defensively; Suddenly out of nowhere, the bad guy comes swinging down like Burt Lancaster in one of those old movies from the ceiling of the covered stairwell. I immediately reverted to the improvised and quite solid technique of Mag-Bing Shin. Those mag lights are wonderful at crunching bone. Just as he was about to connect with where my head had been only a split second before, I whacked him across the shins with the mag light and he fell down the stairs howling in pain and was subsequently arrested by a very happy me.

Recently, only about a year ago, I was attacked by a psycho in a parking lot because I parked too close to his car. As I was trying to move my car further away, he shows up and goes berserk. Next thing I knew he was pounding me through my driver side window, and with nowhere else to go I got out and we went at it. The sight of a federal firearms instructor jacket I was wearing only fueled him on. He was quite a bit bigger than me and got me in a headlock and proceeded to repeatedly bang my lower sections into my G-ride, denting the car and hurting my hip and back. I thought of taking armed action something along the lines of Ros-Ko Bang Bang, but from the position I was in I feared that any bullet might ricochet off his hip and hit me in the head. So I was forced to resort to the infamous technique of Go-Nad Wak. It took only one or two solid shots with this wonderful technique to free myself. As it turned out this guy was able to flee; I am no dummy (nor am I young enough any more to enjoy the luxury of being dumb) so I let him go. I figured there was no way short of shooting him that I would control him and even that was not for sure, and he shad stopped trying to crush or maim me by then. I followed him and called for backup from the NYPD who arrested him. He ultimately pled to some minor violation, paid my doctor bills and paid for the damage to the G-Ride. Me, I am ok. I guess mainly because I improvised my technique and did what it took when other things I knew did not work.

There have been several other instances over the years where improvsion has saved my ass. Sure I got hurt, and it would have been better to be some sort of a black belt, or at least if I had practiced this stuff more (and believe me I wish I had). As it was I used what I knew, what I could make up on the moment, my will to survive; and I had something else going for me to: the ancient philosophy of law enforcement officers worldwide known as Ta-Kem Doun Dan-Oh (if you are as old as me you know just how ancient that is). Thank you and sayonara!

Best regards,
Glenn B:D
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Come On, Glenn, You're Doing It Again!

:beer: Glenn, That was hilarious! Imagine a gun website where many of the posters have a real sense of humor. I love it; you'd never find this kind of repartee over at GT; all I, ever, do there is get into arguments!

Let me pass this along to another, 'old guy'. Over the years I've discovered that there are several easy moves that anyone can use to get himself out of trouble; and absolutely no martial training is needed: Here they are. (1) Thumbs in the eyes; works every time. If it's serious, dig deep! (2) Speaking of thumbs: Digit breaking! Just grab one and twist for all you're worth. (3) Foot/arch stomping. When you're in close (like when Glenn's psycho had him in a head lock) slam down on top of his foot as hard as you can. In the alternative, try, 'shin raking'. The shins are very sensitive; and this technique hurts like the devil.

The three prime targets that should be struck in violent confrontation whenever you have the opportunity are the elbows, the knees, and the base of ears.

(An alternative target would be the wrists. You may notice that by choosing these targets you will have a tendency to move off your attacker's vertical centerline; and that's a very good thing to do. Always try to strike from the quarter angle whenever possible.)

A caveat is necessary, here, If you do decide to employ any of these techniques be aware that permanent unrepairable damage may occur; and, in some instances, (head) the subject may die. Law enforcement personnel, I am certain, are neither taught nor allowed to use these targets; BUT, if you're life or future health are on the line, you should be aware that these target options are available to you whether or not you have spent many years practicing in a dojo. ;)

Regards, 'AA'
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Personally, I would consider ANY fight to be a life or death situation. Once the other person gets the upper hand, it is completely at his (yeah I know if could be a her... seen some mean ones..) discretion about how much further he will go with injuring you. Any threat of violence is a potential threat to your life.

When you are dying, the 20-20 hindsight of thinking "Darn, I should have started off with a stronger defense" will do you little good.
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